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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have acquired a 2017 CRF450RX roller.. and thus, my electric journey has begun. I'm still in the research stage at this point, but I was curious if anyone has created any mounts for this frame yet? If so would you be willing to share any cad/3D drawings that you have created?
So far I am leaning towards Electro and Co kit that you all have been mentioning in this forum. https://www.electroandcompany.com/product-page/qs138-70h-v3-3000w-em-15…
One question, there is an option for an EM260SP controller. Is this a water cooled controller?
The EM260 is not water cooled, and for a first conversion I would recommend staying away from that just from a complexity standpoint. We have had good luck just mounting the controller to an aluminum plate with thermal paste in between so that the plate can act as a heat sink, that will provide enough cooling for the vast majority of riders. I highly recommend the E&C kit for ease of use, but I'm biased so do what you will haha.
We don't have any designs for the CRFs yet, but the plan is to continually add conversion kits over time and eventually we will have something available for the Hondas. I don't know what your level of experience with CAD is but I if you're relatively handy with it designing your own mounts should be possible, just make sure that you get the output shaft of the electric motor as close to the same location as the output shaft for the old gas motor, this is critical for handling and making the bike feel "correct". Also make sure that any clamping points on the frame (swingarm pivot, motor mounts, etc) have material spanning completely between them, a lot of conversions I see miss this detail and they end up binding the whole chassis up because there is nothing to support the frame as these areas are tightened. It will likely take a few tries to get the design right, just take your time and don't be tempted to rush forward if something is looking quite right for fitting correctly, time spent perfecting the motor and battery mounting is time well spent!
Here are a few photos of what I'm talking about, this is the swingarm pivot and front motor mount from out YZ-EMX kit. Notice how the span between the frame is fully supported so that when these areas are tightened down the frame is held in it's intended geometry, just like it would be with the gas motor installed:
I agree with JM485 on the Watercooling. The new kits from E&C now have the EM260S controller, a newer model controller. Aliexpress has a heat sink made for it. But you won't need that right away, but make sure you have space to adapt it later. The better rider you are the more you will push it. At about 400AMPs and a moderate rider in a 5-6 lap moto, no problem. A pro rider at 400A and the same moto will overheat it or the battery. So far the motor can live at these currents. I know that E&C is selling a kit for the YZ250F and 450F new models, but if you want to see my CRF450F 2023 build it is on Facebook, Electric Motorcycle Builds, Donald Cox. Here is a YouTube of me at Glen Helen about a month ago on my own YZ250F. It ran 5-6 lap motos at 300-400A and used about 50% battery. This YouTube is only a couple laps, and it is Doug Dubach that passed me (Flew past me). He was on the first line start in my moto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RLlOsf8vs&ab_channel=DonaldCox
Man this is so cool, thanks for sharing.
The Shop
JM485 (Josh) and Maico4 (aka Don Cox) are two of the most knowledgable and experienced guys in this field right now. Obviously every build is going to be different depending on budget, requirements and skill level, but Josh and Don really know their stuff.
Josh is working with E&C on the conversion kit and Don has built numerous bikes of his own and for customers.
If you go to Facebook and other forums, you'll find plenty of other knowledgeable folks with countless other solutions (batteries, controllers, motors, etc.) but for robust and affordable MX builds, there is no better option than E&C at the moment. Yes, you can get all of the individual necessary parts cheaper on Alibaba, but the wiring and programming is all up to you in that case, and that is where I've seen countless builders get tripped up.
Good luck with the build and keep us updated!
Agree with Bayodome. The E&C kit makes your build so much easier. Mount motor properly, same with controller, plug in wiring and you're ready to ride after deciding on battery size and mounting it.
Your youtube video said you are 78 years old and still ripping Glen Helen! That is awesome! And thank you all greatly for the help. I'm not a fast rider so fingers crossed I won't have any issues with the heating.
My plan is to 3D print test mounts to get everything lined up and then if I feel comfortable with everything I'll send the cad files to either a local shop or somewhere like sendcutsend.com for the real mounts. I would like to have the motor and controller fully mocked up with 3D prints before I commit to any fabrication. But we will see how things go once I dive into it all.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Hey Don, a friend is planning a build on a 2017 KTM PDS chassis.
Any specific peculiarities to be aware of with that chassis ?
& .. what would be a good source for a quality 50-55 Ah custom sized battery for that frame ? Thanks loads !
I know you asked Don but I figured I would throw my two cents in because, ya know, I'm nosey haha.
Starting with the KTM chassis is a challenge, mainly due to the single backbone frame design. This leaves A LOT LESS room for battery because it has to be installed from the side, rather than from the top like we can with the perimeter aluminum frames. You end up losing a ton of battery capacity in the process, and honestly unless he is extremely partial to that particular bike I would highly recommend starting out with a different chassis. The end result will be a lot better overall and allow for a much more reasonable riding range, the single backbone chassis just don't have enough room for most types of riding. If he's just planning on playing around on a backyard track or doing short trails rides then it might be adequate, but anything more than that and he's probably going to want to consider a different starting point. Just something to consider before starting the build.
Hey Number Six, and JM485, I would say go ahead with almost any type frame. The best size battery for most bike ends up at a 72V 50Ah battery. This right now gives you 400A for a good Moto, and you can make them, Steel frame bikes and older frames with a quick change in and out the side or on the perimeter frames(newer alum) in and out the top. In a 2017 KTM with linkage, (same motor and battery space) I got a 63AH (20S16P Molicel) battery into that frame.. The reason I prefer the 72V 50AH battery (also with 20S12P Molicels), is that you can get the bike in at about 220-230lbs. My YZ250F is 228lbs with 50AH battery. A KTM with the same battery 2008 PDS, which I just finished, weighed 225lbs. The Linkage KTM weighed 242 with the 63AH battery. That is a 4.8KW battery. Stark is 2KW bigger battery, and we would be that heavy if we put more battery in ours. Most of us build what we can afford, and or have. I have a 2022 KTM 250SX in prep to be started soon. I am going to build a quick change from the side with a 50AH battery. I like the aluminum perimeter frames, they are sleeker and safer keeping the battery inside the frame, The motor and controller fit real nicely in the PDS KTM. I will post some pics of it on Electric Motorcycle Builds forum. The new EM260S controller is much smaller, it fits real nice in the airbox
Number Six, I didn't mention any info on the battery. I would recommend Amorge.com Quite a few people have been happy with them. Just select air shipping, more expensive, and get a 10-15A charger. Also require Molicel P42A for maximum power. The dimensions are about 8" high, 11" long and 9" wide. Here is a rough sketch. 20S12P.
Here are a couple pics of my 2008 KTM PDS type
Thanks Don, I mentioned to him that the challenge would be the non-perimeter frame, but he already has it & sold the motor recently. It has an Ohlins TTX44 shock & DalSoggio CC inserts, it's a sorted & very capable chassis.
As evidenced ; you've been able to make very good use of the PDS frame. I dont think the expectation is for any more than 20-25 miles of range & the application is single track, not Moto so a 50Ah arrangement may well work just fine. Thx again.
@JM485 I just started looking at electric full size dirtbike options after talking to my brother. His friend brought a converted electric crf450 to his house and he said it was one of the best bikes he’s ever ridden. I’m kind of hooked on the idea now.
One question I have for you is, when will the Trumoto Zapper available as a loose part? I don’t have a YZ but the DIY kits look pretty impressive.
For everyone else, what is a good parameter frame to start with that has a good suspension package. I know there was a time period that bike had some pretty tough to dial in air forks. I haven’t ridden any dirtbikes much newer than 2010 or so. My current bike is a 2005 KTM which I wouldn’t have much desire to covert. I think it would be neat to buy a 2005-2017 bike and sell the engine package and build an electric bike with the DIY kit. I’m kind of leaning towards a 2015ish RMZ 250 but I really have no brand preference.
Thank you, Rob
Hello Rob, They are a lot of fun to ride , the converted electric bikes. Where do you live? If you are in California, or Arizona, you could meet us at a track and try one of ours. The Trumoto Zapper, is being slow to be delivered. They are still working on getting them perfected. One of our converted YZ250F's is getting one of the first ones from E&C. The Votol controllers, they are selling in the interim, still work quite well, The kit they, E&C, are offering is a very good, well thought out kit for a newer YZ250F 2018 and newer bikes. If you are interested I have a 2008 KTM 250SXF that is street legal and converted to electric. A new QS138 70H V3 motor and EM260S and a 72V 42AH battery. It has a Arizona street legal license with all the lights and stuff + 12V system. I have access to a few donor bikes, a 2003 YZ250F with a title, and a 2007 CRF450. RMZ's are good donor bikes also. I want about $5000 for the KTM. I can build any modern, 2000 and newer, dirt bike into an electric, but they usually cost more to build than the $5000 for the KTM I am working on a 2005 CRF , and a 2022 KTM 250 SXF right now. Here is me riding at Glen Helen Blue Cru ride/race day. I'm in the over 60 class because I am 79, and still get to enjoy riding the fun electric bikes. Here is a pic of the bike for sale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RLlOsf8vs&ab_channel=DonaldCox
Don (Maico4)
Slightly off-topic but Don, mad respect for riding at 79, it seems unreal, you've got such a passion for the sport, you're an inspiration!
And not just the riding of course with everything you do, you're still living and breathing motorcycles, wow. Just less fumes now
Thanks for the feedback Don. I was watching your YouTube videos earlier today. You have a lot of great looking builds. I would love to build up a more modern bike but I don’t feel like spending a ton of money on the expensive modern dirtbike for the first time.
I am in CT, so not close. My brothers friend used the same motor and controller that you use. He has a friend that makes batteries. He said there are a few things he is going to start modifying but that setup that you use and Electro sells is a great starting point.
I think your battery build and assembly videos are super interesting. I have very limited knowledge of battery construction and charging and regulating systems but I really want to learn about this. I’m an engineer in the diesel engine industry and would like to learn more about hybridization and electrification. I think this could be a great way to learn about an alternative power system in a very fun way.
Hi guys,how about a 2004 RFS 450 EXC? Low hours,never raced. I'd love to go electric. Would this be a good frame?
Thanks Beagle. I think and believe riding is how you keep riding. I have been lucky and blessed to still get to ride and build these things.
Pit Row
Any dirt bike 2000 and on will work. The newer you go the better they handle. That is very similar to the 2008's I have built. 2008 to 2011 PDS are a little better, but KTM still sells the PDS system on the enduro type bikes. The difficult part is getting everything welded in or Water jetted to fit the motor in perfect alignment with the rear sprocket, and all the caveats that go around that. Lithium-King.com can supply the front sprockets, and the water jetted motor mount. ElectroandCompany.com can supply the motor and controller kit. You will need to do a lot of custom work to mount the motor and controller and battery. But the motor and controller will work after bolting them in, with the E&C kit. After you get the motor and controller in, find out how to fit as much battery as you can will fit in the space. A lot of the tank has to go, don't let that discourage you.
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