Stark Varg Racing Debut

soggy
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4/28/2024 6:25am
7eleven wrote:
Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national...

Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national champ. 

How’s it feel in race conditions when you know people can’t hear you coming?

8tensolutions
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4/28/2024 6:31am
wfopete wrote:
  Glad to hear it.  I just received this to correct a "Software problem".

 

Glad to hear it.  I just received this to correct a "Software problem".

image-20240420073515-2

7eleven wrote:

Well played.

Well, if that was a KTM, Honda, Kawi, etc with a crankshaft issue (or anything else) after 15 hours you would be buying an engine since they have no warranty.  At least Stark stood behind their product.  

4
7eleven
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4/28/2024 8:07am
7eleven wrote:
Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national...

Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national champ. 

soggy wrote:

How’s it feel in race conditions when you know people can’t hear you coming?

I did make a few stealthy passes. 

Moto Braap
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4/28/2024 9:37am
7eleven wrote:
Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national...

Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national champ. 

I was a big Austin Squires fan out of RI.

The Shop

7eleven
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4/28/2024 10:32am
7eleven wrote:
Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national...

Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national champ. 

Moto Braap wrote:

I was a big Austin Squires fan out of RI.

Thanks buddy! 👊🏻

Moto Braap
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4/28/2024 3:31pm
7eleven wrote:
Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national...

Had my first legit race day out at BillaDilla in east TX yesterday. My Varg did a good job at beating everyone but a 2x national champ. 

Moto Braap wrote:

I was a big Austin Squires fan out of RI.

7eleven wrote:

Thanks buddy! 👊🏻

Looks like you beat Matt’s dad.  How many rides did it take to dial in the power and are local top shops now experts with the tech there like HOH was in the 90’s and 00’s?

philG
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4/29/2024 2:30pm

Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British Championship, have banned Electric MX bikes at their races, due to not being able to deal with the safety/ environmental implications of the charger units of the Stark. 

Interestingly, this does not affect electric trials bikes, and KTM freerides etc, as they use different charge methods.

Kurlon
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4/29/2024 3:01pm

But... they don't use different charge methods... going to their site it's any 'Electric MX bike', rather than Varg in particular.  'Enduro and Trials' are not impacted.  So I don't think it's got anything to do with the charging method and more to do with which track/areas are in use as they've got different areas for each discipline?

Ah, found a bit more info, still smells like BS: https://www.facebook.com/CanadaHeightsMX

Quote: "Sidcup MCC do not have not the safety equipment, Marshal training or paddock space to accommodate Electric Motocross Bikes at Canada Heights, this will affect the June 9th race meeting and following MX meetings until further updates, this will not affect Electric Enduro or Trials Bikes that use a different battery source. Apologies for any inconvenience, Sidcup MCC committee."

So... you have that training and equipment for the other areas, but not the motocross area.  And no space for what... people to have small generators that they often bring anyways even when campaigning gassers (at least based on observation here in Maine)?

JM485
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4/29/2024 3:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2024 3:57pm
philG wrote:
Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British...

Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British Championship, have banned Electric MX bikes at their races, due to not being able to deal with the safety/ environmental implications of the charger units of the Stark. 

Interestingly, this does not affect electric trials bikes, and KTM freerides etc, as they use different charge methods.

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

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7eleven
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4/30/2024 3:40am
Moto Braap wrote:

I was a big Austin Squires fan out of RI.

7eleven wrote:

Thanks buddy! 👊🏻

Moto Braap wrote:
Looks like you beat Matt’s dad.  How many rides did it take to dial in the power and are local top shops now experts with the...

Looks like you beat Matt’s dad.  How many rides did it take to dial in the power and are local top shops now experts with the tech there like HOH was in the 90’s and 00’s?

I was off the bike for a few years so I had to ease back into the power. I ran 42hp for 6 weeks, then 47 for a few, then rounded it up to 50. Been at 50 for a while now. Tried 60hp on a practice day at 3 Palms. Went back to 50 after that. It’s possible that I move to 55 soon, I’m getting better on it. 

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chump6784
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4/30/2024 4:03am

The last couple weekends I've raced against a Stark and talked to the guy riding it. 

First up, it's not the holeshot machine I thought it would be. In the Vet expert/pro class on a dirt start the stark didn't holeshot once. I think his best would have been around 5th or so. On a concrete start he seemed to do a lot better. Once I figured out 3rd gear start on the 450 on concrete I could beat it to the first corner. 

2nd. You cannot hear them. Only reason i knew the stark was being me was i could hear the guys behind him and when i turned to check where they were i saw him there. My son even said that i cut the stark off going into a corner causing him to fall, I had no idea he was there. Talking to the guy he said he had to be very cautious around other bikes and had to plan his passes very carefully. It's not such an issue when he was a lot faster than the riders he was passing but on riders close to his speed he had to be careful. 

I know fmf did an April fools with the speaker on the stark but it's actually a good idea for racing. 

All in all the performance is very comparable. In the first moto he had the motor tuned to make less power and my 450 would gap him on the straights. He turned it up for the second moto and we were pretty even as far as speed on the straights. 

They are a viable option for moto where battery life isn't an issue and they don't leave an ICE bike behind in performance

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djr
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4/30/2024 4:53am
philG wrote:
Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British...

Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British Championship, have banned Electric MX bikes at their races, due to not being able to deal with the safety/ environmental implications of the charger units of the Stark. 

Interestingly, this does not affect electric trials bikes, and KTM freerides etc, as they use different charge methods.

JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

Sidcup / Canada Heights track is in Kent , the same county, and not very far from a Race circuit called Lydden Hill.

Last year at Lydden there was a massive fire involving 2 electric Rallycross cars being charged.

Before you criticise the club, perhaps the Kent fire brigade or some other local authority have imposed rules out of being overcautious regarding EV fires

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Beagle
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4/30/2024 5:20am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2024 6:37am

There are safety guidelines adopted by various national federations (marshalls equipped with gloves, helmet, and trained, lithium fire extinguisher). It's nothing fancy, I guess marshall training could be the only hurdle for an organizer willing to let electrics race.

See for instance here for Motorcycle Australia: https://www.ma.org.au/licences-rules/rules/electric-machine-information/

The biggest hazard is indeed charging, however there is no need for a separate charging area to plug your bike to a standard outlet.

Some organizers and federations are willing to let electrics race, some are not, that's fine, that's up to them. And sure if you want to do it, you got to do it right.

But the number of championships letting electrics race show it's perfectly doable. Where there is a will, there is a way.

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MxAddic
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4/30/2024 5:42am
JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

Maybe the same OEM political thugs that got to the FIM are getting to the local organizations. Or maybe folks have RW concerns the E-tard will never admit.

2
4/30/2024 5:42am
Beagle wrote:
There are safety guidelines adopted by various national federations (marshalls equipped with gloves, helmet, and trained, lithium fire extinguisher). It's nothing fancy, I guess marshall training...

There are safety guidelines adopted by various national federations (marshalls equipped with gloves, helmet, and trained, lithium fire extinguisher). It's nothing fancy, I guess marshall training could be the only hurdle for an organizer willing to let electrics race.

See for instance here for Motorcycle Australia: https://www.ma.org.au/licences-rules/rules/electric-machine-information/

The biggest hazard is indeed charging, however there is no need for a separate charging area to plug your bike to a standard outlet.

Some organizers and federations are willing to let electrics race, some are not, that's fine, that's up to them. And sure if you want to do it, you got to do it right.

But the number of championships letting electrics race show it's perfectly doable. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Earth leakage breakers are required on all Australian AC outlets, but they are not always fitted to portable generators, the ones that do have a grounding stake, but most people don't hammer them into the ground!

Moto Braap
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4/30/2024 3:27pm
wfopete wrote:
  Glad to hear it.  I just received this to correct a "Software problem".

 

Glad to hear it.  I just received this to correct a "Software problem".

image-20240420073515-2

7eleven wrote:

Well played.

Well, if that was a KTM, Honda, Kawi, etc with a crankshaft issue (or anything else) after 15 hours you would be buying an engine since...

Well, if that was a KTM, Honda, Kawi, etc with a crankshaft issue (or anything else) after 15 hours you would be buying an engine since they have no warranty.  At least Stark stood behind their product.  

Does the narrow shape of the Stark Varg bike remind riders of the old 90’s Hondas?

burn1986
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4/30/2024 10:32pm

Bogle in here with his Stark

 

 

2
4/30/2024 10:48pm
burn1986 wrote:
Bogle in here with his Stark    

Bogle in here with his Stark

 

 

Who's the f***ing idiot who parks their bike next to the track, inline with a jump landing?

image-20240501154701-1

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8500rpm
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4/30/2024 11:20pm
burn1986 wrote:
Bogle in here with his Stark    

Bogle in here with his Stark

 

 

Who's the f***ing idiot who parks their bike next to the track, inline with a jump landing?

Who's the f***ing idiot who parks their bike next to the track, inline with a jump landing?

image-20240501154701-1

...but it does look like one of those bikes that you ride with sneakers and usually in large groups doing wheelies, maybe some got lost from the inner city Wink

1
1
5/1/2024 1:26am
burn1986 wrote:
Bogle in here with his Stark    

Bogle in here with his Stark

 

 

Who's the f***ing idiot who parks their bike next to the track, inline with a jump landing?

Who's the f***ing idiot who parks their bike next to the track, inline with a jump landing?

image-20240501154701-1

8500rpm wrote:
...but it does look like one of those bikes that you ride with sneakers and usually in large groups doing wheelies, maybe some got lost from...

...but it does look like one of those bikes that you ride with sneakers and usually in large groups doing wheelies, maybe some got lost from the inner city Wink

It looks like a Sur-Ron...

image-20240501182412-1

Most likely one of the guys spectating on the side of the track, they could have parked it behind them.

Nothing against the bike, ride whatever you want, but don't be an idiot, don't park it next to the track, inline with a jump landing.

 

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1
5/1/2024 10:23am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2024 10:36am
philG wrote:
Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British...

Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British Championship, have banned Electric MX bikes at their races, due to not being able to deal with the safety/ environmental implications of the charger units of the Stark. 

Interestingly, this does not affect electric trials bikes, and KTM freerides etc, as they use different charge methods.

JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

Could it have something to do with the tracks insurance provider?  And the reason is provided by the insurance company.  Insurance companies can have some strange stipulations.  

Could it have something to do with there being more people that race the MX races and the pits would be tighter, with more people being closer?

I'm juts trying to make sense of the rule. 

Is there a link to a clear definition of what is not allowed? It has a photo of a Varg and bans bikes with batteries unless they come from a different source. Do they mean no lithium? No batteries assembled by Stark? No cells the brand that Stark uses?     Don't all electric motorcycles use lithium cells ? 

 

And people complain about the AMA rules being vague.

Imagine the AMA just showing a photo of Jett jumping the finish with a red cross and saying. You can not do this...  And not saying exactly what it was that was not allowed.      

 

What if somebody shows up with a Varg to race an enduro?  Has an 18" rear tire, light, handguards and setup as an enduro style bike. If it is not giving a certain battery size limit, or banning a certain brand. It should be fine to race it in an enduro right?  If so, it looks like they either did not try to make it work for MX, or did not want to.  

5/1/2024 10:27am
JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

MxAddic wrote:
Maybe the same OEM political thugs that got to the FIM are getting to the local organizations. Or maybe folks have RW concerns the E-tard will...

Maybe the same OEM political thugs that got to the FIM are getting to the local organizations. Or maybe folks have RW concerns the E-tard will never admit.

But how would those same things not be an issue for enduro or trials bikes???  They are all using lithium cells . And would charge them the same way.   

philG
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5/1/2024 2:13pm
philG wrote:
Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British...

Saw today that one of the biggest clubs in the south of the UK, Sidcup & DMCC who traditionally ran the first round of the British Championship, have banned Electric MX bikes at their races, due to not being able to deal with the safety/ environmental implications of the charger units of the Stark. 

Interestingly, this does not affect electric trials bikes, and KTM freerides etc, as they use different charge methods.

JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

djr wrote:
Sidcup / Canada Heights track is in Kent , the same county, and not very far from a Race circuit called Lydden Hill. Last year at...

Sidcup / Canada Heights track is in Kent , the same county, and not very far from a Race circuit called Lydden Hill.

Last year at Lydden there was a massive fire involving 2 electric Rallycross cars being charged.

Before you criticise the club, perhaps the Kent fire brigade or some other local authority have imposed rules out of being overcautious regarding EV fires

Yeah, a friend was there when that happened an it was fucking scary, and they could do nothing about it. 

They had a race there a few weeks after , and i heard the stuff was all still there waiting Hazmat removal. 

 

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djr
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5/2/2024 2:04am
JM485 wrote:
What safety and environmental implications?    Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds...

What safety and environmental implications? 

 

Are they seriously trying to say that charging a Varg off of a generator is more dangerous than the hundreds of full race gas cans sitting around in the pits?  What different charging methods are the trials bikes and freerides using if not a charger and generator?  

 

Edit: Just saw the reply above and ya, this sounds like complete bullshit just like most of the other "reasons" I've heard for banning them.  Give me a break.

djr wrote:
Sidcup / Canada Heights track is in Kent , the same county, and not very far from a Race circuit called Lydden Hill. Last year at...

Sidcup / Canada Heights track is in Kent , the same county, and not very far from a Race circuit called Lydden Hill.

Last year at Lydden there was a massive fire involving 2 electric Rallycross cars being charged.

Before you criticise the club, perhaps the Kent fire brigade or some other local authority have imposed rules out of being overcautious regarding EV fires

philG wrote:
Yeah, a friend was there when that happened an it was fucking scary, and they could do nothing about it.  They had a race there a...

Yeah, a friend was there when that happened an it was fucking scary, and they could do nothing about it. 

They had a race there a few weeks after , and i heard the stuff was all still there waiting Hazmat removal. 

 

I went to a race meeting at Lydden months after the EV RallyCross fire and the scene was still  untouched, and may even still be as it was.

As you say, they were waiting for HazMat removal, and I believe trying to work out who has to pay for the very expensive clean up.

vdrsnk04
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5/2/2024 4:28am

What about the lithium batteries that are in all the gas bikes?

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djr
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5/2/2024 4:50am
vdrsnk04 wrote:

What about the lithium batteries that are in all the gas bikes?

They are much smaller , for a start.

Secondly, there is no need to fast charge them, which is often when a lithium battery turns into a firework 

Beagle
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5/2/2024 6:59am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2024 7:02am
vdrsnk04 wrote:

What about the lithium batteries that are in all the gas bikes?

djr wrote:
They are much smaller , for a start. Secondly, there is no need to fast charge them, which is often when a lithium battery turns into...

They are much smaller , for a start.

Secondly, there is no need to fast charge them, which is often when a lithium battery turns into a firework 

Good point, which is also applicable to the comparison made here between the Varg and rallycross carsTongue

The Varg battery is much smaller (52 kWh 330 kg VS 6.5 kWh 32 kg) and it does not need fast charging.

In fact standard 220 V household outlet gets about 1% charge per min (slower towards the end), about 2 h to fully charge.

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early
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5/2/2024 9:17am
vdrsnk04 wrote:

What about the lithium batteries that are in all the gas bikes?

djr wrote:
They are much smaller , for a start. Secondly, there is no need to fast charge them, which is often when a lithium battery turns into...

They are much smaller , for a start.

Secondly, there is no need to fast charge them, which is often when a lithium battery turns into a firework 

Beagle wrote:
Good point, which is also applicable to the comparison made here between the Varg and rallycross cars The Varg battery is much smaller (52 kWh 330...

Good point, which is also applicable to the comparison made here between the Varg and rallycross carsTongue

The Varg battery is much smaller (52 kWh 330 kg VS 6.5 kWh 32 kg) and it does not need fast charging.

In fact standard 220 V household outlet gets about 1% charge per min (slower towards the end), about 2 h to fully charge.

Charging at .5C is a fairly conservative rate for lithium ion batteries.

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