Most of my “local” races are 3hrs each way. Also curious what that would look like. Ford tried to sell my buddies on a lightning even...Most of my “local” races are 3hrs each way. Also curious what that would look like. Ford tried to sell my buddies on a lightning even when they explained the places they go, he pulled up the map and it was going to be like 14 hours each way lol. They’d have to leave a full night earlier and get a hotel for the lightnings revolutionary capabilities.
Traveling 3 hours each way to ride is just as big of a problem to the future of MX as a $15k electric bike.
Here's the thing though...I replace bikes at about 100 hours...I haven't done a top end, or valves or clutch or any maintenance beyond oil, air filters...Here's the thing though...I replace bikes at about 100 hours...I haven't done a top end, or valves or clutch or any maintenance beyond oil, air filters, tires in well over a decade. I get new bikes every 100 hours because I like a new bike feel, and want the new model...that wouldn't change on an electric bike...I'd still want a new one because I'd want the new bike feel, and I'd want the new model...so I'd never recoup that extra $3K cost for the bike via maintenance...I don't spend $3K on oil, and air filters in 100 hours (changing the oil every 7 hours and oil filter every 14...that's 14 oil changes at $10 each, for $140, and 7 oil filters at $10 each for $70...total of $210 for maintenance), so I'm $10,400 into a gas bike every other year, vs $13K for a stark, still way cheaper to own a gas bike (and get significantly more range).
Similar thing with trucks and maintenance...don't keep them long enough to deal with the major issues.
This could change for a guy that keeps a bike for 200-300 hours, and drives a truck to 300K miles...
Anyway, my point, is that reduced cost is a poor argument for Electric...the performance-and in the dirt bike world, new riding opportunities-is how to justify the additional cost of an electric bike. Still can't overcome the lack of range, but hopefully that will come with time.
Agreed no one buys an electric dirtbike for the cost (though no engine-related maintenance is appealing to quite a few).
That being said I'm interested in the example you're giving, how much money do you "lose" for your 100 h, 2-3 years old bike, what is the depreciation you face given there has been no real engine maintenance for 100 h?
Obviously for an electric bike the battery life would be the weakest link and as the bike has only been out for a year we don't know about its resale value yet nor about its real world battery life. But if you were to change the battery every 300 h, at 3k a pop that'd be 10 $/h "engine maintenance/battery cost", which does not seem to me on the high end?
Traveling 3 hours each way to ride is just as big of a problem to the future of MX as a $15k electric bike.
Facts.
All of the above, you can nit pick all you want, the fact still remains that it is not a friendlier alternative and the mining is...All of the above, you can nit pick all you want, the fact still remains that it is not a friendlier alternative and the mining is up 50x for the lithium compared to the chips for the phones. Not my fault people fell for the next scheme, but don’t go around pushing it like a humanitarian alternative for “green energy” because it isn’t.
I never once pushed it as some green alternative. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in ya'll thinking your stopping child slavery by not riding one...I never once pushed it as some green alternative.
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in ya'll thinking your stopping child slavery by not riding one.
How many millions have died in Wars because of fossil fuels? Kinda seems like you don't give a fuck about those lives.
If you're such a humanitarian and care about innocent lives so much then better quit burning all fossil fuels too right?
Are you a humanitarian or a hypocrite?
Sell the gas powered shit, throw anything you own with a lithium battery in the trash.
Walk the walk or quit talking the talk.
Move on, you tried to point something out and it backfired. Hypocrisy you drew up in your own mind
The Shop
Move on, you tried to point something out and it backfired. Hypocrisy you drew up in your own mind
How is it not hypocrisy?
Do you care about the kids or not?
Seems like you don't actually give a fuck and were just looking for a reason to shit on Stark....nothing says I've ran out of reasons more than "I'm stopping child slavery" while typing it from a phone that uses a battery that is supporting the same slavery.
How about just be man enough to admit that you made a stupid comment and just wanted to shit talk Stark?
The only thing that has backfired is how many times you Stark haters have had to move the goal posts to keep your shit talking going.
Bottom line, YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT CHILD SLAVERY.
It sucks that it's nearly impossible to exist today without supporting at least some form of slavery.
Initial impact of slaving black kids for minerals aside, I love electric for the potential independence if nothing else.
It sucks that it's nearly impossible to exist today without supporting at least some form of slavery. Initial impact of slaving black kids for minerals aside...It sucks that it's nearly impossible to exist today without supporting at least some form of slavery.
Initial impact of slaving black kids for minerals aside, I love electric for the potential independence if nothing else.
Independence? Please explain?
Move on, you tried to point something out and it backfired. Hypocrisy you drew up in your own mind
How is it not hypocrisy? Do you care about the kids or not? Seems like you don't actually give a fuck and were just looking for...How is it not hypocrisy?
Do you care about the kids or not?
Seems like you don't actually give a fuck and were just looking for a reason to shit on Stark....nothing says I've ran out of reasons more than "I'm stopping child slavery" while typing it from a phone that uses a battery that is supporting the same slavery.
How about just be man enough to admit that you made a stupid comment and just wanted to shit talk Stark?
The only thing that has backfired is how many times you Stark haters have had to move the goal posts to keep your shit talking going.
Bottom line, YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT CHILD SLAVERY.
Where did you conjure up all of this? You simply took what I said found something and tried to spin it. I can not change the past. Similar to reparations for slavery today. Makes zero sense. But what we can do is focus on the present and the future. Hence why currently the lithium batteries are far worse for our environment and the children who have to sift the mining camps.
Instead you take you bs stance and sit on a hypocrisy hill because why? Your own assumptions. Do I care about our planet? Fuck yes, do I care about my children and children’s futures globally? Yes. Is electric cool because you can ride at night locally? Yes. Is it the end all be all? No and it doesn’t even make practical sense. Keep trying dude keep trying
The future of motocross is a $90k truck and $15k dirtbike? Maybe for you and a niche part of the sport, but I don't think it's...The future of motocross is a $90k truck and $15k dirtbike?
Maybe for you and a niche part of the sport, but I don't think it's THE future.
No, that is the present of our sport for new things.
Yes, you can drive old cars and ride an old dirt bike. I do.
But I'm surrounded by folks that either have way more than me or are willing to saddle more debt to get a $90K truck and $15K dirt bike factory edition.
Not to mention the ever escalating $200K+ RV competition at bigger races.
No reason to hate on the guy for sharing. Pretty soon all we'll be left with here are adventure riders telling us how motocross should be.
It sucks that it's nearly impossible to exist today without supporting at least some form of slavery. Initial impact of slaving black kids for minerals aside...It sucks that it's nearly impossible to exist today without supporting at least some form of slavery.
Initial impact of slaving black kids for minerals aside, I love electric for the potential independence if nothing else.
Independence? Please explain?
Setup some solar panels and you become your own energy producer to charge your car/bike, something that's impossible for most people to do with oil. There could be a power outage, gas shortage, skyrocketing prices, but your stuff is still up and running. That's pretty sweet.
Forgot to include the cost of a new battery after 5 years due to load cycling it like that and the hospital bills when the varg drive by wire decides that it actually doesn't want to stop accelerating and just sends you halfway out of atmosphere.
Just to add some facts to this perennial conversation about terrible cobalt mining: EV are fast moving away from Co, LFP (LiFePO4, as in "no cobalt") market share in EV batteries was 40% last year, its share more than doubled since 2020, and it's already the major battery chemistry in China (largest market for EV with 54% of global sales).
Also, EV batteries account for about 40% of Co global demand so anybody properly concerned about Co mining would of course get riled up about the remaining 60% (hint: you should start boycotting laptops and smartphones).
Where did you conjure up all of this? You simply took what I said found something and tried to spin it. I can not change the...Where did you conjure up all of this? You simply took what I said found something and tried to spin it. I can not change the past. Similar to reparations for slavery today. Makes zero sense. But what we can do is focus on the present and the future. Hence why currently the lithium batteries are far worse for our environment and the children who have to sift the mining camps.
Instead you take you bs stance and sit on a hypocrisy hill because why? Your own assumptions. Do I care about our planet? Fuck yes, do I care about my children and children’s futures globally? Yes. Is electric cool because you can ride at night locally? Yes. Is it the end all be all? No and it doesn’t even make practical sense. Keep trying dude keep trying
What am I trying to do exactly?
I'm just pointing out how big of a jack ass you look like trying to say you are against the Stark because of child slavery. If you felt so strongly about it you woulda been beating that drum since the beginning of the Stark talk.
You haven't. You've only brought it up now because you've run out of other arguments against it..... both pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
Keep trying to spin it on me while you sit up there on your throne of "anti child slavery" while typing from a device that is responsible for the same child slavery.
Like I said, if you gave a shit like you claim about not enslaving kids you'd practice what you preach and get rid of any lithium battery that you own. You won't.
Until you walk the walk, don't talk the talk dawg cause you enslaving just as many kids as the rest of us. Remember when you lay down in bed tonight and set the alarm on your phone that a kid in Africa spent a life in slavery so you could do that.
I don't think many people do a piston kit every 20 hours and a valve kit every 40 hours, but that's what the manual calls for...I don't think many people do a piston kit every 20 hours and a valve kit every 40 hours, but that's what the manual calls for on Austrian 250Fs. If you want to double the service interval, then it costs you $25 per hour. If you want to quadruple the service interval, it's $12.50 an hour. It's very relevant, because Starks cost $12,999 and KTM 250F is $10,199. It's simple math to figure out how many hours (depending on the service interval you decide to use) when the Stark becomes cheaper than the KTM.
On the truck side, at least half of the trucks I see at the track are diesel 4x4s. The CyberTruck is very similar in cost to a diesel 4x4, so I don't "need to drive it to the moon" to "get my money back". I paid the same price as someone driving a diesel truck. And my fuel costs are about 10% of a diesel truck, before factoring in $150 oil changes, DEF, and all the DEF components breaking at less than 150k miles.
I know it's a scary, changing world out there, but grab your blankie and you will survive it...
A true total cost of ownership analysis always includes depreciation and/or resale/scrap value. Right now the CT has a novelty factor that is a tough variable to account for, but if you used average depreciation of an EV (50% in ~3 years), this is where the diesel 4x4 will absolutely crush your operating cost argument.
For the record, I drive a Tundra, because for my needs criteria, it has the lowest overall cost of ownership, even though it has slightly higher operating costs then most of it's competitors.
I bought a 2004 CRF450R in 2011 for $2k and just sold it last year for more than I paid. Sure I put money into it...I bought a 2004 CRF450R in 2011 for $2k and just sold it last year for more than I paid. Sure I put money into it over the years because I care for my stuff, but I got more than a decade out of it. Around here, people that have all brand new bike/truck/gear/etc generally get an eye roll. They tend to share lots of similarities to something something south park harley episode.
People with new trucks, bikes, and gear are fags in your area? Interesting. We call them motocross racers in my area.
Interesting. We call it a midlife crisis here. Once paired up with a 3 minute lap time, you’re really cooking now.
Where did you conjure up all of this? You simply took what I said found something and tried to spin it. I can not change the...Where did you conjure up all of this? You simply took what I said found something and tried to spin it. I can not change the past. Similar to reparations for slavery today. Makes zero sense. But what we can do is focus on the present and the future. Hence why currently the lithium batteries are far worse for our environment and the children who have to sift the mining camps.
Instead you take you bs stance and sit on a hypocrisy hill because why? Your own assumptions. Do I care about our planet? Fuck yes, do I care about my children and children’s futures globally? Yes. Is electric cool because you can ride at night locally? Yes. Is it the end all be all? No and it doesn’t even make practical sense. Keep trying dude keep trying
What am I trying to do exactly? I'm just pointing out how big of a jack ass you look like trying to say you are against...What am I trying to do exactly?
I'm just pointing out how big of a jack ass you look like trying to say you are against the Stark because of child slavery. If you felt so strongly about it you woulda been beating that drum since the beginning of the Stark talk.
You haven't. You've only brought it up now because you've run out of other arguments against it..... both pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
Keep trying to spin it on me while you sit up there on your throne of "anti child slavery" while typing from a device that is responsible for the same child slavery.
Like I said, if you gave a shit like you claim about not enslaving kids you'd practice what you preach and get rid of any lithium battery that you own. You won't.
Until you walk the walk, don't talk the talk dawg cause you enslaving just as many kids as the rest of us. Remember when you lay down in bed tonight and set the alarm on your phone that a kid in Africa spent a life in slavery so you could do that.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods
everyone is a hypocrite in one form or another. Some add to the shit and others don’t. Have fun learning all of the things you use that came off of children’s back's
to the original point yet again, I don’t like electric for the very reasons originally stated. Which the more electric you buy the more you contribute.
-hypocrite
Pit Row
My local track is right at 50 miles each way. If I charge multiple bikes I have to hit a Supercharger in the way home for...My local track is right at 50 miles each way. If I charge multiple bikes I have to hit a Supercharger in the way home for about 5 minutes. Luckily it’s in the parking lot of a Sonic and close to a great Mediterranean sandwich place.
If I only charge one bike I can make it round trip.
What is your charging routine for those "travel races" you mentioned?What is your charging routine for those "travel races" you mentioned?
Great question on the travel races. I'm sure everyone wants to know how they stack up, electric vs diesel.
CyberTruck - best to charge every 100ish miles as the last 20% of battery charge is very slow. The best efficiency/speed balance is 75 MPH. Takes ~30 minutes to re-charge 100 miles of range.
1999 F350 Powerstroke - gets 10MPG when pulling, has a 25 gallon tank, so I typically gas up around 200-225 miles. Can only pull the large trailer at 65 MPH, because the six speed manual doesn't hit good RPMs at 75 with the trailer in OD, have to run in 5th. Because I don't the balls to pull the trailer at 85 MPH, and the EGTs get too high anyway.
Closest race is 200 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 2.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100 miles but need to charge another 15 minutes if I want battery to charge Starks in the morning.
F350 - 3 hours of driving @ 65; no stops as long as I fill up before we leave. Typically stop 15 minutes once to grab snacks, bathroom or fuel.
Net time : about 10 minutes longer with the CyberTruck
Medium travel race is 350 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 4.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 5.3 hours of driving @ 65. Can get by with one stop but normally stop twice for 15 minutes each for snacks, bathroom and/or fuel
Net time : about 20 minutes longer with CyberTruck, 35 minutes longer if only stop once with F350
Long travel race is 520 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 6.9 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 8 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least twice for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost an hour longer with CyberTruck
Brutal trave race is 728 miles each way. Only do this race once a year in early spring, as weather is too cold to race anything close
Cybertruck - 9.7 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 11.2 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least three times for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost 1.5 hours longer with CyberTruck .
This trip honestly will really suck with the CyberTruck. I have a range extender on order, and hopefully will have it by spring. Otherwise I will probably stay overnight on the way to and from. Did the trip in March with the F350 and got home at 4am due to snowy conditions. I'm way to old to drive all night like that...
I don't think many people do a piston kit every 20 hours and a valve kit every 40 hours, but that's what the manual calls for...I don't think many people do a piston kit every 20 hours and a valve kit every 40 hours, but that's what the manual calls for on Austrian 250Fs. If you want to double the service interval, then it costs you $25 per hour. If you want to quadruple the service interval, it's $12.50 an hour. It's very relevant, because Starks cost $12,999 and KTM 250F is $10,199. It's simple math to figure out how many hours (depending on the service interval you decide to use) when the Stark becomes cheaper than the KTM.
On the truck side, at least half of the trucks I see at the track are diesel 4x4s. The CyberTruck is very similar in cost to a diesel 4x4, so I don't "need to drive it to the moon" to "get my money back". I paid the same price as someone driving a diesel truck. And my fuel costs are about 10% of a diesel truck, before factoring in $150 oil changes, DEF, and all the DEF components breaking at less than 150k miles.
I know it's a scary, changing world out there, but grab your blankie and you will survive it...
A true total cost of ownership analysis always includes depreciation and/or resale/scrap value. Right now the CT has a novelty factor that is a tough variable...A true total cost of ownership analysis always includes depreciation and/or resale/scrap value. Right now the CT has a novelty factor that is a tough variable to account for, but if you used average depreciation of an EV (50% in ~3 years), this is where the diesel 4x4 will absolutely crush your operating cost argument.
For the record, I drive a Tundra, because for my needs criteria, it has the lowest overall cost of ownership, even though it has slightly higher operating costs then most of it's competitors.
I have a 2018 Tesla Model 3. It hasn't lost 50% of it's value. Most people don't realize that Tesla's get OTA (over the air software updates), so my car is almost exactly the same as a 2023. 2024 Model 3's got a refresh, which was mostly costmetic in nature.
The exact same thing happens to Stark Varg's as well. They will hold their resale well because of the OTA updates and electric powertrain.
You can't compare resale values on a shit-tacular Chevy Bolt or god forbid a Nissan Leaf with 72 miles of range to a Tesla, even though both are electric vehicles. These are both motorcycles, but one will hold it's value much better...
Ok morans! "JUSTIN COOPER IS THE FUTURE"! REMEMBER?
My Stark is finally being delivered tomorrow! My neighbors can't wait!
Ok morans! "JUSTIN COOPER IS THE FUTURE"! REMEMBER?
My Stark is finally being delivered tomorrow! My neighbors can't wait!
I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you post your VIN or approximate number?
Forgot to include the cost of a new battery after 5 years due to load cycling it like that and the hospital bills when the varg...Forgot to include the cost of a new battery after 5 years due to load cycling it like that and the hospital bills when the varg drive by wire decides that it actually doesn't want to stop accelerating and just sends you halfway out of atmosphere.
Another great question. The battery is rated for 500 cycles and after than it still works, but could potentially lose some range. That's about 375 hours. Show me a guy that rides his bike for 375 hours without a rebuild and I will show you a slow, washed up trail rider.
The cells in the batteries currently cost about $600 and come down every year. When I hit 375 hours in 2-3 years, if my frame is still rideable, I'll pay Stark 3k for a new battery or buy an aftermarket battery. Most likely, I will purchase a new frame and battery from Stark.
The Stark is about 100x less likely to have an injury causing malfuction. I personally know two riders who have been completely busted up on the past year due to false neutrals or catestrophic engine lockups on ICE bikes. My son was injured but not badly when his 2022 SX125 locked up at 7 hours in a rythem section. All were high level riders with well maintained bikes. Phil Nicoletti is on record with Yamaha transmissions getting rebuilt at less than 10 hours due to lockups/slipping.
Forgot to include the cost of a new battery after 5 years due to load cycling it like that and the hospital bills when the varg...Forgot to include the cost of a new battery after 5 years due to load cycling it like that and the hospital bills when the varg drive by wire decides that it actually doesn't want to stop accelerating and just sends you halfway out of atmosphere.
Another great question. The battery is rated for 500 cycles and after than it still works, but could potentially lose some range. That's about 375 hours. ...Another great question. The battery is rated for 500 cycles and after than it still works, but could potentially lose some range. That's about 375 hours. Show me a guy that rides his bike for 375 hours without a rebuild and I will show you a slow, washed up trail rider.
The cells in the batteries currently cost about $600 and come down every year. When I hit 375 hours in 2-3 years, if my frame is still rideable, I'll pay Stark 3k for a new battery or buy an aftermarket battery. Most likely, I will purchase a new frame and battery from Stark.
The Stark is about 100x less likely to have an injury causing malfuction. I personally know two riders who have been completely busted up on the past year due to false neutrals or catestrophic engine lockups on ICE bikes. My son was injured but not badly when his 2022 SX125 locked up at 7 hours in a rythem section. All were high level riders with well maintained bikes. Phil Nicoletti is on record with Yamaha transmissions getting rebuilt at less than 10 hours due to lockups/slipping.
The cells in the battery pack cost $400, 400 x $1...
Ok morans! "JUSTIN COOPER IS THE FUTURE"! REMEMBER?
My Stark is finally being delivered tomorrow! My neighbors can't wait!
I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you...I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you post your VIN or approximate number?
4835
Ok morans! "JUSTIN COOPER IS THE FUTURE"! REMEMBER?
My Stark is finally being delivered tomorrow! My neighbors can't wait!
I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you...I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you post your VIN or approximate number?
4835
08xx and 08xx. Got them last fall. They were within 3 digits of each other.
Ok morans! "JUSTIN COOPER IS THE FUTURE"! REMEMBER?
My Stark is finally being delivered tomorrow! My neighbors can't wait!
I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you...I'd be interested to know how many Starks has shipped, they are claiming 5000, but the last VIN numbers posted have been around 1000, can you post your VIN or approximate number?
4835
Lots of 4000s and 5000s became available in the US this past month, highest I've seen is in the 5600s (in the US so Europe is likely in the 6000s).
Great question on the travel races. I'm sure everyone wants to know how they stack up, electric vs diesel. CyberTruck - best to charge every 100ish...Great question on the travel races. I'm sure everyone wants to know how they stack up, electric vs diesel.
CyberTruck - best to charge every 100ish miles as the last 20% of battery charge is very slow. The best efficiency/speed balance is 75 MPH. Takes ~30 minutes to re-charge 100 miles of range.
1999 F350 Powerstroke - gets 10MPG when pulling, has a 25 gallon tank, so I typically gas up around 200-225 miles. Can only pull the large trailer at 65 MPH, because the six speed manual doesn't hit good RPMs at 75 with the trailer in OD, have to run in 5th. Because I don't the balls to pull the trailer at 85 MPH, and the EGTs get too high anyway.
Closest race is 200 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 2.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100 miles but need to charge another 15 minutes if I want battery to charge Starks in the morning.
F350 - 3 hours of driving @ 65; no stops as long as I fill up before we leave. Typically stop 15 minutes once to grab snacks, bathroom or fuel.
Net time : about 10 minutes longer with the CyberTruck
Medium travel race is 350 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 4.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 5.3 hours of driving @ 65. Can get by with one stop but normally stop twice for 15 minutes each for snacks, bathroom and/or fuel
Net time : about 20 minutes longer with CyberTruck, 35 minutes longer if only stop once with F350
Long travel race is 520 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 6.9 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 8 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least twice for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost an hour longer with CyberTruck
Brutal trave race is 728 miles each way. Only do this race once a year in early spring, as weather is too cold to race anything close
Cybertruck - 9.7 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 11.2 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least three times for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost 1.5 hours longer with CyberTruck .
This trip honestly will really suck with the CyberTruck. I have a range extender on order, and hopefully will have it by spring. Otherwise I will probably stay overnight on the way to and from. Did the trip in March with the F350 and got home at 4am due to snowy conditions. I'm way to old to drive all night like that...
How would you charge when you get at the track, will solar be enough, and how long approximately (depending on weather of course) or do you find charge stations nearby or do you use some RV outlets available at some tracks?
Great question on the travel races. I'm sure everyone wants to know how they stack up, electric vs diesel. CyberTruck - best to charge every 100ish...Great question on the travel races. I'm sure everyone wants to know how they stack up, electric vs diesel.
CyberTruck - best to charge every 100ish miles as the last 20% of battery charge is very slow. The best efficiency/speed balance is 75 MPH. Takes ~30 minutes to re-charge 100 miles of range.
1999 F350 Powerstroke - gets 10MPG when pulling, has a 25 gallon tank, so I typically gas up around 200-225 miles. Can only pull the large trailer at 65 MPH, because the six speed manual doesn't hit good RPMs at 75 with the trailer in OD, have to run in 5th. Because I don't the balls to pull the trailer at 85 MPH, and the EGTs get too high anyway.
Closest race is 200 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 2.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100 miles but need to charge another 15 minutes if I want battery to charge Starks in the morning.
F350 - 3 hours of driving @ 65; no stops as long as I fill up before we leave. Typically stop 15 minutes once to grab snacks, bathroom or fuel.
Net time : about 10 minutes longer with the CyberTruck
Medium travel race is 350 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 4.6 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 5.3 hours of driving @ 65. Can get by with one stop but normally stop twice for 15 minutes each for snacks, bathroom and/or fuel
Net time : about 20 minutes longer with CyberTruck, 35 minutes longer if only stop once with F350
Long travel race is 520 miles each way:
Cybertruck - 6.9 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 8 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least twice for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost an hour longer with CyberTruck
Brutal trave race is 728 miles each way. Only do this race once a year in early spring, as weather is too cold to race anything close
Cybertruck - 9.7 hours of driving @ 75, 30 minutes to charge at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700 miles. Have enough charge left over for morning charging of Starks.
F350 - 11.2 hours of driving @ 65. Must stop at least three times for fuel. 15 minutes each stop.
Net time : Almost 1.5 hours longer with CyberTruck .
This trip honestly will really suck with the CyberTruck. I have a range extender on order, and hopefully will have it by spring. Otherwise I will probably stay overnight on the way to and from. Did the trip in March with the F350 and got home at 4am due to snowy conditions. I'm way to old to drive all night like that...
How would you charge when you get at the track, will solar be enough, and how long approximately (depending on weather of course) or do you...How would you charge when you get at the track, will solar be enough, and how long approximately (depending on weather of course) or do you find charge stations nearby or do you use some RV outlets available at some tracks?
I don't have the solar installed on my trailer yet, but once I do, the solar will provide plenty of power to charge the Starks, run a mini-split for cooling (early spring races may require some heating), and TV/lap top. It will even provide some charging for the CyberTruck but probably not enough charging to get full before we travel back home.
Without the solar installed, I charge at a SuperCharger or one of the 3rd party chargers (Electrify America, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc). There is one race that does not have high speed chargers nearby, and I park the CyberTruck one block from hotel and charge it for free overnight. I only have to charge one time per weekend.
Here's the thing though...I replace bikes at about 100 hours...I haven't done a top end, or valves or clutch or any maintenance beyond oil, air filters...Here's the thing though...I replace bikes at about 100 hours...I haven't done a top end, or valves or clutch or any maintenance beyond oil, air filters, tires in well over a decade. I get new bikes every 100 hours because I like a new bike feel, and want the new model...that wouldn't change on an electric bike...I'd still want a new one because I'd want the new bike feel, and I'd want the new model...so I'd never recoup that extra $3K cost for the bike via maintenance...I don't spend $3K on oil, and air filters in 100 hours (changing the oil every 7 hours and oil filter every 14...that's 14 oil changes at $10 each, for $140, and 7 oil filters at $10 each for $70...total of $210 for maintenance), so I'm $10,400 into a gas bike every other year, vs $13K for a stark, still way cheaper to own a gas bike (and get significantly more range).
Similar thing with trucks and maintenance...don't keep them long enough to deal with the major issues.
This could change for a guy that keeps a bike for 200-300 hours, and drives a truck to 300K miles...
Anyway, my point, is that reduced cost is a poor argument for Electric...the performance-and in the dirt bike world, new riding opportunities-is how to justify the additional cost of an electric bike. Still can't overcome the lack of range, but hopefully that will come with time.
Agreed no one buys an electric dirtbike for the cost (though no engine-related maintenance is appealing to quite a few). That being said I'm interested in...Agreed no one buys an electric dirtbike for the cost (though no engine-related maintenance is appealing to quite a few).
That being said I'm interested in the example you're giving, how much money do you "lose" for your 100 h, 2-3 years old bike, what is the depreciation you face given there has been no real engine maintenance for 100 h?
Obviously for an electric bike the battery life would be the weakest link and as the bike has only been out for a year we don't know about its resale value yet nor about its real world battery life. But if you were to change the battery every 300 h, at 3k a pop that'd be 10 $/h "engine maintenance/battery cost", which does not seem to me on the high end?
For me...as I don't have as much time to ride as I once did...I'm around 100 hours every other year or so (except when I'm injured like 2022 and can't ride for a year, then its a three year cycle). I've been buying YZ450FX's...about $11,000 out the door (I have to pay state sales tax here)...and then usually I'll trade them in, and with about 100 hours and two years old, I'm getting around $5500-$6500 (depends on a lot of factors) on trade (and I could probably get a bit more if I were just to sell it myself). So I'm out of pocket about $4500-$5500 every other year for a brand new bike (which feels like a great deal driving home from the dealer with a new bike in the truck with a $10,200 msrp and I'm usually under $6K out of pocket).
And I hate maintenance...so the complete lack of it is super appealing to me! (I loved my sons ee5 when he had it for that very reason). I look forward to when I can ride electric...but as an off road rider, I can't get past the lack of range.
I don't get a new bike because I'm worried about it falling apart or blowing up, or it doesn't make enough power...I get a new bike because at 100 hours they just start to feel old. That will hold true for a electric bike as well. So I'd be replacing an electric bike every 100 hours or so as well.
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