15 years plus since Yamaha 400 four stroke

The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2015 9:24pm
Can you believe it has been that long?
Can you believe the changes over the last decade and a half?
Can you believe KTM was gotten down to the weight limit?
Can you believe KTM is the only one with electric start?


Be curious to hear others' thoughts on these questions. One parting question is why were those thumpers so hard to start initially? Was it cam timing? Too high of compression pistons or what? We will occasionally see someone have an issue restarting but nowadays getting those thumpers relit is pretty much a non issue.
|
Brad460
Posts
3919
Joined
5/15/2012
Location
Richfield, WI US
Fantasy
368th
1/25/2015 11:38am
I would just leave my 426 running all day for fear it wouldn't start when I needed it- right before the gate drops...Laughing ..Jk. Although I wanted to!



mx836
Posts
5578
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
; BF
1/25/2015 11:38am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2015 11:39am
It is pretty amazing how far they've come in such a short time. A new stock 450 probably blows Henry's works prototype 400 out of the the water. Hard to believe it's been 15 years since the beginning of the end.
ATKpilot99
Posts
10195
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
1/25/2015 11:39am


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
ChrisB10
Posts
2082
Joined
5/24/2014
Location
Plattsburgh, NY US
1/25/2015 11:41am
Wow that's insane . Makes me feel old to think it's been that long. Not sure on the trouble starting question but I'm pumped where thumpers are headinG when I think about how the KTM SX-F FE weighs only 220lbs.

The Shop

Hgibbs566
Posts
436
Joined
12/23/2014
Location
US
1/25/2015 11:57am Edited Date/Time 1/25/2015 11:59am
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia I got.

For me the 400 has lead to a more even playing field with privateer teams more able to compete with the factory teams. When it was 2-strokes I remember the big saying in the pits amongst the privateers being, "I just want to be the top privateer in this field."

Now it's pretty common to hear these privateer teams and riders talking about being top ten and beating the factory riders. That's a major mindset change IMO.

KTM is showing that getting down to the weight limit might not be all that we fans crack it up to be. The bike being as light as it is, does not seem to be performing any better then the Japanese bikes.

We still see people struggle to start these bikes if they're in a rush and either can't find neutral or try to start it with the clutch in, but in neutral, they seem to start just fine. It's not as intresting to me that KTM is the only company to have electric start, but more that the Japanese OEM's have no desire to have any model with E-Start, and weekend warriors don't seem to care because nobody is demanding the OEM'S add them. I guess people look at it as more of a novelty item.
scott_nz
Posts
5621
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NZ
Fantasy
1939th
1/25/2015 12:01pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]http://inclinazionemoto.it/old/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/250769_1927_001.jpg[/img] Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
I agree with you, this was the start of the four stroke revolution,
mx836
Posts
5578
Joined
4/2/2008
Location
; BF
1/25/2015 12:06pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]http://inclinazionemoto.it/old/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/250769_1927_001.jpg[/img] Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
A very cool bike indeed, but I don't believe Husqvarna had anything going for them that would sway the minds of the motocross masses and mfg's the way Yamaha could. I've always been a Husqvarna fan and actually raced a '99 CR125 in schoolboy that year.
wildbill
Posts
4366
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Christmas Valley, OR US
1/25/2015 12:35pm
I've had 3 of those rock, and raced em all. The first was actually a WR-400 that I traded straight across for a KX-250. I was 4 sec a lap faster on that fat pig... Cool



btw...^ Funnest track I've ever ridden on East of Goldendale Wa.

1/25/2015 12:39pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]http://inclinazionemoto.it/old/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/250769_1927_001.jpg[/img] Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
What's the story behind that bike? Was it a fire breathing 550? I still can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to have left footed kick starters on those things.
1/25/2015 12:47pm
As good as the early 4 strokes were, I give the 2002 CRF450 credit as well. Without competition no one would strive to get better.
mark_swart
Posts
2433
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC US
1/25/2015 2:04pm
The Rock wrote:
Can you believe it has been that long? Can you believe the changes over the last decade and a half? Can you believe KTM was gotten...
Can you believe it has been that long?
Can you believe the changes over the last decade and a half?
Can you believe KTM was gotten down to the weight limit?
Can you believe KTM is the only one with electric start?


Be curious to hear others' thoughts on these questions. One parting question is why were those thumpers so hard to start initially? Was it cam timing? Too high of compression pistons or what? We will occasionally see someone have an issue restarting but nowadays getting those thumpers relit is pretty much a non issue.
For that matter, can you believe the emergence as KTM in general over that time period?!?! How many serious racers were on orange in '99?

I never rode any of the early YZ 426/450s, but I personally think a lot of the starting issues came from the habits we all developed on two strokes. Give it a little gas, in gear, and a half ass kick and a two stroke is back in the race. I think in the heat of the moment it took some time for people to adapt to four stroke restarting.


SoCalMX70
Posts
3039
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
1/25/2015 2:05pm
I remember 426s being quite a bitch to start... at least that is better now. Rather surprised that KTM is still the only mfg with an e-start though.
scott_nz
Posts
5621
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
NZ
Fantasy
1939th
1/25/2015 2:16pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]http://inclinazionemoto.it/old/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/250769_1927_001.jpg[/img] Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
What's the story behind that bike? Was it a fire breathing 550? I still can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to have...
What's the story behind that bike? Was it a fire breathing 550? I still can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to have left footed kick starters on those things.
it was 630cc i think by the end of its run (not sure if it was quite that big when Jacky Martens won the 500 world title in 93, it was at least 610 tho), I remember Darryll King brought his factory bike down here in the late 90's for training, they were trick,

2 strokes won the title in 94 Hanson CR500)and 96 Shayne King KTM360, then never again in the 500cc Class, Joel Smets Husabergs from the time were pretty trick as well,

HenryA
Posts
3785
Joined
12/29/2011
Location
Stockholm SE
1/25/2015 3:08pm
Brad460 wrote:
I would just leave my 426 running all day for fear it wouldn't start when I needed it- right before the gate drops...:laugh: ..Jk. Although I...
I would just leave my 426 running all day for fear it wouldn't start when I needed it- right before the gate drops...Laughing ..Jk. Although I wanted to!



Ah the memories. That thing was hard to fire up, damn near impossible when it was hot.
Scrubadub
Posts
164
Joined
12/11/2014
Location
MT US
1/25/2015 4:04pm
I have owned a half dozen yz400 's and 426's over the years. They werent too bad to start with the hotcams auto-decompression cam. Damn durable bikes. Rarely needed valve adjustment. Had a 2000 that I tried an 03 yz450 exhaust camshaft in. It was almost unrideable with a Mega midrange hit and a short top end pull. Ended up goin to hotcams and then added a newer FCR Carb from a 450 and it was much eisier to ride. The biggest thing holding those bikes back was the weight but on a slick track the 400/426 was like cheating against the 2 strokes.
racer369
Posts
631
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
MO US
1/25/2015 4:06pm
Damn, cant believe ive been riding yzs that long!
Crush
Posts
21022
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
1/25/2015 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2015 5:06pm
Watching Martens on that Husky was pretty cool... Just sitting into it and the thing grunting about... looked like more than a handful!
slackinoff
Posts
307
Joined
11/18/2014
Location
Nacogdoches, TX US
1/25/2015 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2015 5:31pm
I have an 02 426 for a back up/beater bike. It's got the original manual decompress. After some carb work and tuning. That beast will fire right up no problem hot, cold, recently laid down......the problem is deviating one single step in the starting process....then you are fucked.
The Rock
Posts
8758
Joined
3/21/2007
Location
HAIKU, HI US
1/25/2015 5:45pm
What's the story behind that bike? Was it a fire breathing 550? I still can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to have...
What's the story behind that bike? Was it a fire breathing 550? I still can't believe they thought it would be a good idea to have left footed kick starters on those things.
How many mechanics and racers jacked heir ankles up when their Maicos kicked back? Those things had to be part horse.
vetmxr
Posts
1089
Joined
1/10/2009
Location
NE US
1/25/2015 6:06pm
I bought one of the first 98 400's to come out, for some reason I had the knack for starting that thing and rarely had problems.....I'd see a guy passed out from trying to start a 400, then I'd walk over and have it purring in two kicks. Funny. Find TDC pull in the hot start , leave your hand off the throttle, and give a forcefull kick. Fail to do any of that in order and your walking.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
12516
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
Fantasy
4765th
1/26/2015 8:40am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]http://inclinazionemoto.it/old/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/250769_1927_001.jpg[/img] Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.


Yamaha gets all the credit but to me this is the bike that really got the ball rolling. World Championship winning machine in 1993.
^^^^^. ( not to forget Husaberg and KTM as well)


Recall Dowd and Cooper riding the 540 against 250 smokers (Smets at Southwick, too, right) in 02, and RC commented about "that 800 or whatever it is." People forget that the exception Yamaha got was not to run a 400, the rules allowed up to 550cc then, but rather to run a works bike in spite of the production rule.
bvm111
Posts
9671
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV US
1/26/2015 9:39am
The funny thing for me is the sole reason I never bought a four stroke was watching my buddie have issues start their 400 and 426's!

I said that's not for me and I still have never owned one.... Although these days I am seriously tempted!
TeamGreen
Posts
31889
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
1/26/2015 9:54am
18 years & 3 generations later...& now they have THE 250 engine.

I still get a kick outta the Thumper-Haters.
1/26/2015 10:03am
Hgibbs566 wrote:
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia...
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia I got.

For me the 400 has lead to a more even playing field with privateer teams more able to compete with the factory teams. When it was 2-strokes I remember the big saying in the pits amongst the privateers being, "I just want to be the top privateer in this field."

Now it's pretty common to hear these privateer teams and riders talking about being top ten and beating the factory riders. That's a major mindset change IMO.

KTM is showing that getting down to the weight limit might not be all that we fans crack it up to be. The bike being as light as it is, does not seem to be performing any better then the Japanese bikes.

We still see people struggle to start these bikes if they're in a rush and either can't find neutral or try to start it with the clutch in, but in neutral, they seem to start just fine. It's not as intresting to me that KTM is the only company to have electric start, but more that the Japanese OEM's have no desire to have any model with E-Start, and weekend warriors don't seem to care because nobody is demanding the OEM'S add them. I guess people look at it as more of a novelty item.
I think you are wrong on both the weight and e-start subjects.

I can guarantee you that anyone who owns any bike, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, would like e-start IF it didn't add too much weight.

I thought Japanese bikes would have e-start by now, I assume the only reason they don't is it's too expensive to both cut weight and add light weight quality parts for e start. It's only a matter of time. Yamaha will be the first IMO.
HenryA
Posts
3785
Joined
12/29/2011
Location
Stockholm SE
1/26/2015 11:12am
MudPup545 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/01/26/78086/s1200_1101141444a.jpg[/img]


The shape of the frame compared to the production model is startling.


Never got the chance to ride a 1998. And it's not like there are plenty of them around nowadays.
Darryl916
Posts
1252
Joined
12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD US
1/26/2015 11:28am
Hgibbs566 wrote:
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia...
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia I got.

For me the 400 has lead to a more even playing field with privateer teams more able to compete with the factory teams. When it was 2-strokes I remember the big saying in the pits amongst the privateers being, "I just want to be the top privateer in this field."

Now it's pretty common to hear these privateer teams and riders talking about being top ten and beating the factory riders. That's a major mindset change IMO.

KTM is showing that getting down to the weight limit might not be all that we fans crack it up to be. The bike being as light as it is, does not seem to be performing any better then the Japanese bikes.

We still see people struggle to start these bikes if they're in a rush and either can't find neutral or try to start it with the clutch in, but in neutral, they seem to start just fine. It's not as intresting to me that KTM is the only company to have electric start, but more that the Japanese OEM's have no desire to have any model with E-Start, and weekend warriors don't seem to care because nobody is demanding the OEM'S add them. I guess people look at it as more of a novelty item.
I think you are wrong on both the weight and e-start subjects. I can guarantee you that anyone who owns any bike, 2 stroke or 4...
I think you are wrong on both the weight and e-start subjects.

I can guarantee you that anyone who owns any bike, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, would like e-start IF it didn't add too much weight.

I thought Japanese bikes would have e-start by now, I assume the only reason they don't is it's too expensive to both cut weight and add light weight quality parts for e start. It's only a matter of time. Yamaha will be the first IMO.
I'm one that doesn't care if a bike has E start. It is a novelty to me. My bike starts fine without it. Same reason I never switched my sport bike to GP shift pattern and won't put a auto clutch on my bike. Just things to support being lazy.
kiwifan
Posts
9481
Joined
10/31/2009
Location
CA US
1/26/2015 11:48am
Well these days the 450's are actually pretty easy to start ot be fair, so is electric start really needed on a MX/SX bike????
TeamGreen
Posts
31889
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
1/26/2015 11:55am
Hgibbs566 wrote:
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia...
I destroyed my leg on one of those 400's trying to kickstart it. Those things had so much compression I jokingly blame them for my hernia I got.

For me the 400 has lead to a more even playing field with privateer teams more able to compete with the factory teams. When it was 2-strokes I remember the big saying in the pits amongst the privateers being, "I just want to be the top privateer in this field."

Now it's pretty common to hear these privateer teams and riders talking about being top ten and beating the factory riders. That's a major mindset change IMO.

KTM is showing that getting down to the weight limit might not be all that we fans crack it up to be. The bike being as light as it is, does not seem to be performing any better then the Japanese bikes.

We still see people struggle to start these bikes if they're in a rush and either can't find neutral or try to start it with the clutch in, but in neutral, they seem to start just fine. It's not as intresting to me that KTM is the only company to have electric start, but more that the Japanese OEM's have no desire to have any model with E-Start, and weekend warriors don't seem to care because nobody is demanding the OEM'S add them. I guess people look at it as more of a novelty item.
I think you are wrong on both the weight and e-start subjects. I can guarantee you that anyone who owns any bike, 2 stroke or 4...
I think you are wrong on both the weight and e-start subjects.

I can guarantee you that anyone who owns any bike, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, would like e-start IF it didn't add too much weight.

I thought Japanese bikes would have e-start by now, I assume the only reason they don't is it's too expensive to both cut weight and add light weight quality parts for e start. It's only a matter of time. Yamaha will be the first IMO.
Darryl916 wrote:
I'm one that doesn't care if a bike has E start. It is a novelty to me. My bike starts fine without it. Same reason I...
I'm one that doesn't care if a bike has E start. It is a novelty to me. My bike starts fine without it. Same reason I never switched my sport bike to GP shift pattern and won't put a auto clutch on my bike. Just things to support being lazy.
Now that I'm riding KTMs...

Kickers seem antiquated.

Post a reply to: 15 years plus since Yamaha 400 four stroke

The Latest