43 second lap times = track too short

JSmith
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JSmith
Edited Date/Time 4/8/2016 4:32am
43 second lap times for a SX track is ridiculous. That is way too short of a track. The goal of the track builders should be 60+ second lap times every week.

http://racerxonline.com/2016/04/05/sign-of-the-lap-times-santa-clara
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hillbilly
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hillbilly 4/6/2016 5:29am
4/6/2016 5:29am
Nara the track up to handlebar width and wind it like a the line for the best rollercoaster at six flags.

JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 4/6/2016 5:30am
4/6/2016 5:30am
Or if they can't make that work with the space provided, change the format of the races from 15 / 20 laps to 13min.+2 / 18min+2.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 4/6/2016 5:46am
4/6/2016 5:46am
The only problem with changing the race format to get more racing, is that the track itself. The track at the end of the 450 main seems like a steaming pile. Chewed up and nasty. I'd hate to have those guys go any longer on a track in that condition. Although it may not be as bad as I'm making it out to be. Never ridden one.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 4/6/2016 6:04am
4/6/2016 6:04am
JackLHyde wrote:
Or if they can't make that work with the space provided, change the format of the races from 15 / 20 laps to 13min.+2 / 18min+2.
They're worried about the casual fan being too stupid to understand that . They need a set number of laps . Imo it should be 20 and 25 at all events .

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JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 4/6/2016 6:13am
4/6/2016 6:13am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
They're worried about the casual fan being too stupid to understand that . They need a set number of laps . Imo it should be 20...
They're worried about the casual fan being too stupid to understand that . They need a set number of laps . Imo it should be 20 and 25 at all events .
MotoGP races are 40-45 minutes, based on a varying number of laps.
Formula 1 races are the least amount of laps with a total distance of over 305km.
Nascar, I have no clue.

I'm sorry, but the fans will understand that the more they see their riders, the better their ticket prices are invested. Plus it makes tv scheduling easier.
Missing_Muffs 4/6/2016 6:18am
4/6/2016 6:18am
wonder if there is in data out there showing the average speed (MPH) of todays races VS those of the 80's and 90's.
are the shorter lap times simply because the pace is so much faster. that's an easy assumption but actual numbers would be interesting.

Is it also a result of the venues? less floor space? Restrictions on running the track up through the stands?
is supercross out growing stadiums? What's the next logical venue? nascar tracks like Daytona?

as it is now the only thing to increase lap times would be more wall jumps.
Rowlands
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Rowlands 4/6/2016 6:22am
4/6/2016 6:22am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
They're worried about the casual fan being too stupid to understand that . They need a set number of laps . Imo it should be 20...
They're worried about the casual fan being too stupid to understand that . They need a set number of laps . Imo it should be 20 and 25 at all events .
Yes short term answer but unlike Moto GP and F1 the track deteriorates therefore making it dangerous for the riders.

What where the lap times like back in the early 2000's etc ? What have they changed ?

I agree a 43 sec lap sucks !
crusty_xx
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crusty_xx 4/6/2016 6:24am
4/6/2016 6:24am
Can't be easy to draw a track layout on a piece of paper and predict how fast the riders will go around the track several months later...
JackLHyde
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JackLHyde 4/6/2016 6:30am
4/6/2016 6:30am
crusty_xx wrote:
Can't be easy to draw a track layout on a piece of paper and predict how fast the riders will go around the track several months...
Can't be easy to draw a track layout on a piece of paper and predict how fast the riders will go around the track several months later...
On top of that the speed is pretty equal all around the track, safe for corners and wall jumps. The "obstacles" are a technical challenge, but not a speed challenge. A laptime is greatly influenced by track length and the relation straights to corners, not obstacles.
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BSmooth13 4/6/2016 7:40am
4/6/2016 7:40am
2015 Santa Clara "Race Time" compared to this years:




hillbilly
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hillbilly 4/6/2016 7:48am
4/6/2016 7:48am
How you going to build a longer track in the Georgia dome, place is tiny.

And besides,supercross is a show,a marketing tool for well,lots of folks. The racing starts in a few weeks.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/6/2016 8:02am
4/6/2016 8:02am
JSmith wrote:
43 second lap times for a SX track is ridiculous. That is way too short of a track. The goal of the track builders should be...
43 second lap times for a SX track is ridiculous. That is way too short of a track. The goal of the track builders should be 60+ second lap times every week.

http://racerxonline.com/2016/04/05/sign-of-the-lap-times-santa-clara
there have been 45 second laps in supercross in every era.

The fact that the laps arent in the 30's is what is amazing. The bikes are so fast and have so much traction its rediculous.

The only way lap times will increase, without making the tracks into novelty Hotwheels tracks with loops and figure 8's, is to slow the bikes down.

Good luck with that.
jmx411
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jmx411 4/6/2016 8:20am
4/6/2016 8:20am
They were absolutely flying Saturday night. I honestly don't know how more riders didn't end up flying over the berms. Sometimes you can't predict how fast they will go.

I don think some of these newer stadiums have less floor space for closer seating in football. I do know new stadiums in Atlanta and Minnesota will have seats that fold back for dirt events that will allow for more floor space
Ted722
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Ted722 4/6/2016 9:17am
4/6/2016 9:17am Edited Date/Time 4/6/2016 9:18am
Pretty accurate drawing of the Whoops.



There's such an emphasis on rider safety, that it takes away from the show. Sure, the top 3 or 4 still might not make a mistake, but there's the rest of the field that makes up the show as well.

When very little mistakes are made by the entire field, the track degree of difficulty is the issue. Don't think longer lap times would have made a bit of difference.

The track used to be an opponent, now (for the most part) it's a dance.

DukaDuka
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dsmith 4/6/2016 9:23am
4/6/2016 9:23am
to get to a min. on that track..you would need 4 wall jumps, 2 sand sections, 3 hip jumps, etc...
peelout
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peelout 4/6/2016 9:24am
4/6/2016 9:24am
the tracks this year have been pretty poor for the most part. one or two floaters in a sea of shit
early
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early 4/6/2016 9:33am
4/6/2016 9:33am
If there is going to be changes made to supercross next year (chase format) they should really just go all in and change a bunch of stuff at one time.

Have day qualifying then start the night show with lcqs then do 10 mins +2 lap mains. Have 2 mains for 250s and 3 mains for 450s.

This way when you look at the record books the 2017 champion will be the start of the "New Era".

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The Rock
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The Rock 4/6/2016 10:08am
4/6/2016 10:08am
Track wasn't too short the mains were. How hard would it be to go back to timed mains?

Just another example of lack of common sense IMHO.
JSmith
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JSmith 4/6/2016 10:17am
4/6/2016 10:17am
JSmith wrote:
43 second lap times for a SX track is ridiculous. That is way too short of a track. The goal of the track builders should be...
43 second lap times for a SX track is ridiculous. That is way too short of a track. The goal of the track builders should be 60+ second lap times every week.

http://racerxonline.com/2016/04/05/sign-of-the-lap-times-santa-clara
Katoomey wrote:
there have been 45 second laps in supercross in every era. The fact that the laps arent in the 30's is what is amazing. The bikes...
there have been 45 second laps in supercross in every era.

The fact that the laps arent in the 30's is what is amazing. The bikes are so fast and have so much traction its rediculous.

The only way lap times will increase, without making the tracks into novelty Hotwheels tracks with loops and figure 8's, is to slow the bikes down.

Good luck with that.
You are correct. It is not a new problem. I have been watching since the early 90's. I believe it needs to be fixed though. I was watching the 250 main, looked up and couldn't believe it was already half over. I would like to think some smart minds could come up with a way to fit a 60+ second lap time into the given floor space. One idea could be to study all the Endurocross tracks and try to borrow some of those ideas. I am not talking about bringing in logs, rocks, and big tires, but some how create obstacles that have to be ridden at slower speeds like on those tracks.

If the tracks cannot be changed, then go to multiple main events like early suggested. Multiple main events would be awesome, but I don't see that happening.
NotCore
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NotCore 4/6/2016 10:19am
4/6/2016 10:19am
The real problem with the tracks are related to the perceived liability issues with using all the floor space and putting 180 berms next to the stands. Look at that bottom and top lane for example. Only reason the left side 180s are inside the start straight Is liability. Of course mellross made a pretty good case to be concerned about that this weekend, didn't he?
RichardLoots 4/6/2016 11:22am
4/6/2016 11:22am
Rowlands wrote:
Yes short term answer but unlike Moto GP and F1 the track deteriorates therefore making it dangerous for the riders. What where the lap times like...
Yes short term answer but unlike Moto GP and F1 the track deteriorates therefore making it dangerous for the riders.

What where the lap times like back in the early 2000's etc ? What have they changed ?

I agree a 43 sec lap sucks !
oh and tyres last forever in MXGP and F1 ??
Mit12
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Mit12 4/6/2016 12:49pm
4/6/2016 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2016 12:50pm
Guys, the short lap times are done on purpose! Shorter races allow for more fluff time. In this day with the crews they have there is no reason for 43 second lap times other than by design. FELD is trying to gain a larger TV viewer share, by changing up the broadcast. More fluff and a chase format equals more interviews, and drama.
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uk125250 4/6/2016 1:05pm
4/6/2016 1:05pm
hillbilly wrote:
How you going to build a longer track in the Georgia dome, place is tiny. And besides,supercross is a show,a marketing tool for well,lots of folks...
How you going to build a longer track in the Georgia dome, place is tiny.

And besides,supercross is a show,a marketing tool for well,lots of folks. The racing starts in a few weeks.
What about some over under bridges?
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rileymx 4/6/2016 1:08pm
4/6/2016 1:08pm
I think its about the bikes, 450s are too strong and fast now, most of the riders that make a SX main on a 450 are able to do the same line as the winner....250 races are always much more fun to watch, racecraft counts a lot more...
For me SX needs a change to keep it a stadium race, there is just so much you can do to a stadium track to challenge a top rider on a good 450. Maybe put the top guys on mod 250 and the regional series on stock 250....or start looking at more raceways like Daytona...
The way it is it gets to be more of the same every week...as injust as it is for guys like dungey, that really found perfection ....i cant wait for motocross to start.....
Kx125rider 4/6/2016 2:09pm
4/6/2016 2:09pm
Supercross is becoming less and less about racing and more and more about advertisng and popularity
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Gukamonster 4/6/2016 2:42pm
4/6/2016 2:42pm
The "air speed" of these guys is way too fast on these tracks to make a long lap time. The take-offs are shorter and less steep than they were 15 years ago and the bikes are way faster and easier to ride. Clock a rider with a radar gun through a rhythm section today comapred to back then and the difference would be crazy. More stuff that sent these guys higher at slower speeds through the air would liven things up. They go down a jump filled straight now like the bike was a golf ball hit with a 2 Iron instead of a loft wedge.

I really think Feld is cheaping out on dirt (their biggest cost supposedly) and they don't have enough to build more unique stuff, or use the enitre floor space. The stands are a lot more empty this year also.
sandspider250 4/6/2016 3:59pm
4/6/2016 3:59pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2016 4:06pm
The simplest answer is the correct one. Make the longest straight all sand and nice and wide. More passing and adds time to the laps. You're welcome.
bob567
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bob567 4/6/2016 4:18pm
4/6/2016 4:18pm
At the end of the day whats the difference in a couple of seconds for the lap times? Instead of 20 minute mains they are 17 minutes. End results would still be the same either way. It is not an endurance sport. At this point the only thing that separates riders is the whoops. Make them huge and 60-70 long on several parts of the tracks at every round.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 4/7/2016 6:14am
4/7/2016 6:14am
hillbilly wrote:
How you going to build a longer track in the Georgia dome, place is tiny. And besides,supercross is a show,a marketing tool for well,lots of folks...
How you going to build a longer track in the Georgia dome, place is tiny.

And besides,supercross is a show,a marketing tool for well,lots of folks. The racing starts in a few weeks.
uk125250 wrote:
What about some over under bridges?
The new stadium next door will be done soon. May be there next year.

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