A new Dirt-Bike is a BARGAIN...

mattmatt300
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Rockmart, GA US
9/12/2014 1:53pm
Funny I was just saying the exact opposite last night. Cycling is a bargain compared to moto imho.
Homey55
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collinsville, OK US
9/12/2014 1:56pm
Strictly "Bike vs. Bike" the dirtbike is cheaper!

But, to ride MX you need all the gear (boots and helmet minimum) a truck or trailer, gas, entry fee, etc. To ride a MTB you need a helmet and, in some cases, a shuttle or a car. So overall investment depends on what MTB you buy. For me personally, MTB is way cheaper.

On the other hand, parts and pieces, upgrades, maintenance, etc. MTB is outragous! And it has exploded in the last 10 years. I used to be able to buy Maxxis tires at the races for $20 a tire. Last month I went to go buy some tires for my bike and they wanted $80 per tire at the LBS! Chains used to be $10, pedals were $20 etc...

Advertising is a huge problem for MTB. If you go out and buy the latest magazine, you can't find a bike test in there for any bike under $2,500. And they make those bike look terrible! They compare them to a $10,000 bike and tell you all the reasons to buy the $10,000 bike. So you go out to the trails with your buddies, who can afford a $10,000 bike, and you feel like shit! It is a lot of fun to blow by guys on your $700 hardtail though!
peelout
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Ogden, UT US
9/12/2014 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2014 2:01pm
i have about 400 miles on my PEDAL bike this year and probably close to 20,000 feet.

i have about 2,500 miles on my KTM this year (mexico racked them up quick).

i love them both equally. my KTM was $6500 and i've put easily $2000 into it this year. my pedal bike was $3000 and i've put $20 worth of Tubeless sealant in the tires.

word, bro
rosebud441
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Bellingham, WA US
9/12/2014 2:01pm
My latest DH park bike was $3000 and i considered that a bargain... I don't like to think what a nice used moto-scooter that would have got me.. But these things are tuff, and you would be amazed the punishment they can take and maybe worth every penny in terms of fun factor,


The Shop

BAMX
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Fallbrook, CA US
9/12/2014 2:12pm
Kawaboy14 wrote:
No bicycle is worth 8-10k
hvaughn88 wrote:
they are worth what people pay for them
True... I doubt that many people pay sticker price unless they don't bother to look around or have to get the newest stuff. I have been looking for a new XC bike and you can easily find them at steep discounts. Trek is unloading some 8K bikes for $3500 right now. They aren't current year but they are new.

http://www.trekbicyclesuperstore.com/product/trek-remedy-9.9-174572-1.h…
BAMX
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9/12/2014 2:24pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Take your 4T/2T argument to its proper thread. Davi's Zooks at Rockstar won SXs. They were NOT "Works". They were NOT $400K. The bicycle you syou...
Take your 4T/2T argument to its proper thread.

Davi's Zooks at Rockstar won SXs. They were NOT "Works". They were NOT $400K. The bicycle you syou speak of have a bunch of parts that most ALL of the bikes within the same category have...so, there's always that. You'd shit yourself if you know HOW DIFFERENT the TdF bikes are versus what you're getting.
HazemG wrote:
I'll refrain from responding. My father let me in on a little quote that serves well very often when I frequent this forum. "Wise men never...
I'll refrain from responding. My father let me in on a little quote that serves well very often when I frequent this forum. "Wise men never argue with fools, because from a distance, people can't tell who is who"
Did you Dad teach you to know who you are speaking to before you stick your foot in your mouth?



HazemG
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9/12/2014 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2014 2:50pm
jhansen510 wrote:
Face palm.... Calls out one of the most connected dudes on the forum..... Bro! You gotta know who your talking to before you start throwing shit...
Face palm.... Calls out one of the most connected dudes on the forum..... Bro! You gotta know who your talking to before you start throwing shit out there. Team Green knows moto probably better than anyone. The dude is connected!
Jhansen - I don't know who you are (I asked the people I ride with that you mentioned you knew and they don't recognize your name either) and to be honest I don't care who TeamGreen is connected to either. Being 'well-connected' doesn't give you a pass to make generalizations. He told me to take my '2 vs 4 stroke argument to the 2vs4 stroke thread'... And exactly which one would that be? Any one of the 4-6 threads per page? When did I even mention a 2 stroke? If you have a mechanic that charges the same to work on a 4 stroke as on a 2 stroke then tell me and I'll remove my comment about what it costs to maintain a modern day 4 stroke bike and get him to start maintaining my bikes.

The fact that all bikes have the same 'PARTS' does not mean they are the same components. That would be akin to saying your "hyundai accent has brakes and so does my Lamborghini Gallardo, therefore they must be the same." An SWORKS bicycle is leaps and bounds better than your run of the mill specialized allez. Whether it is thousands of dollars better is subjective, but in my eyes, that is a negative. I'll ride an Allez because I will not benefit from the minimal gains the SWORKS line provides an everday rider such as myself.

The whole idea to compare the cycling industry with the moto industry is a moot point. Just because they both have wheels does not mean they should be compared. The bicycle industry is out of whack in regards to pricing. When does that make it an appropriate industry to benchmark ours with?


If anything I explicitly said above is incorrect, feel free to point it out and enlighten me.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
9/12/2014 3:16pm
peelout wrote:
i have about 400 miles on my PEDAL bike this year and probably close to 20,000 feet. i have about 2,500 miles on my KTM this...
i have about 400 miles on my PEDAL bike this year and probably close to 20,000 feet.

i have about 2,500 miles on my KTM this year (mexico racked them up quick).

i love them both equally. my KTM was $6500 and i've put easily $2000 into it this year. my pedal bike was $3000 and i've put $20 worth of Tubeless sealant in the tires.

word, bro
Peely: 1

T/G : 0


But, at-least my Johnson is waterproof & wrapped....(Leatt Factory protection. Remind me to get you one...Fucking HILARIOUS!)
bigborefan
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Urbana, IL US
9/12/2014 3:20pm
I got a theory. MBAs figure out how much disposable cash we have, and they price accordingly.

Every hobby is to damned expensive.

But these bicycle prices are ridiculous.
TeamGreen
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9/12/2014 3:50pm
bigborefan wrote:
I got a theory. MBAs figure out how much disposable cash we have, and they price accordingly. Every hobby is to damned expensive. But these bicycle...
I got a theory. MBAs figure out how much disposable cash we have, and they price accordingly.

Every hobby is to damned expensive.

But these bicycle prices are ridiculous.
Shhhhhhhhh....
#991
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Melbourne AU
9/12/2014 4:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2015 6:58pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe. Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in... BICYCLES. As in...
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe.

Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in...

BICYCLES.

As in No Motor.

Again...Bicycles!

Now, you might want to try and tell my about Aaaaaaallllllll the cool stuff & Technology on these....BICYCLES. Please, don't. I make some of that stuff...and...again...PEDALS...DERAILLEURS...little tiny Shock...little tiny Air-Fork...tiny, tiny brakes...maybe 20% of the content compared to a $6,390 YZ125 or a $8,699 KX450.

So, like I was sayin'...

We're not doin' too bad.
...
JW381
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Harrisburg, OR US
9/12/2014 4:48pm
I agree. In the grand scheme of things you get a lot of quality technology for a relatively low price.
Rdubs19
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Little Rock, AR US
9/12/2014 5:28pm
If anybody should be willing to hand over some money for a high performance, DURABLE mountain bike it is motocrossers. Most people buying high end mountain bikes are nerds and yuppies that will never use half the potential of the bike. Any motocross rider will put far far greater stress and demands on a mountain bike than a typical purchaser of a similar bike. I am amazed how much further ahead I am skill wise on a mountain bike than anybody I've ever went riding with, and I'm a mid pack B rider on an MX track.
JW381
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9/12/2014 6:05pm
Rdubs19 wrote:
If anybody should be willing to hand over some money for a high performance, DURABLE mountain bike it is motocrossers. Most people buying high end mountain...
If anybody should be willing to hand over some money for a high performance, DURABLE mountain bike it is motocrossers. Most people buying high end mountain bikes are nerds and yuppies that will never use half the potential of the bike. Any motocross rider will put far far greater stress and demands on a mountain bike than a typical purchaser of a similar bike. I am amazed how much further ahead I am skill wise on a mountain bike than anybody I've ever went riding with, and I'm a mid pack B rider on an MX track.
I hate yuppies….. Sick Angry
Katoomey
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WY US
9/12/2014 6:23pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe. Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in... BICYCLES. As in...
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe.

Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in...

BICYCLES.

As in No Motor.

Again...Bicycles!

Now, you might want to try and tell my about Aaaaaaallllllll the cool stuff & Technology on these....BICYCLES. Please, don't. I make some of that stuff...and...again...PEDALS...DERAILLEURS...little tiny Shock...little tiny Air-Fork...tiny, tiny brakes...maybe 20% of the content compared to a $6,390 YZ125 or a $8,699 KX450.

So, like I was sayin'...

We're not doin' too bad.
little tiny shocks and little tiny brakes cost just as much to make in labor, research/development, marketing. The property lease and utilities cost the same in the building they are made in. The insurance and bonding for employees is the same. EPA and OSHA rules are the same. The legal teams cost the same. The tools to make the parts cost the same. should I keep going?

the cost of raw materials would be the only thing that costs less...apparently you think that is 90% of manufacturing costs, when in reality it is less than 10%, and often times it is way less than 10%. Labor (in both design, construction, and management) is the principal expense in manufacturing.

JW381
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Harrisburg, OR US
9/12/2014 6:27pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe. Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in... BICYCLES. As in...
I spent the day at Interbike, yesterday, and I saw more $8,000-$10,000 bikes than I could believe.

Mountain Bikes & Road Bikes...as in...

BICYCLES.

As in No Motor.

Again...Bicycles!

Now, you might want to try and tell my about Aaaaaaallllllll the cool stuff & Technology on these....BICYCLES. Please, don't. I make some of that stuff...and...again...PEDALS...DERAILLEURS...little tiny Shock...little tiny Air-Fork...tiny, tiny brakes...maybe 20% of the content compared to a $6,390 YZ125 or a $8,699 KX450.

So, like I was sayin'...

We're not doin' too bad.
Katoomey wrote:
little tiny shocks and little tiny brakes cost just as much to make in labor, research/development, marketing. The property lease and utilities cost the same in...
little tiny shocks and little tiny brakes cost just as much to make in labor, research/development, marketing. The property lease and utilities cost the same in the building they are made in. The insurance and bonding for employees is the same. EPA and OSHA rules are the same. The legal teams cost the same. The tools to make the parts cost the same. should I keep going?

the cost of raw materials would be the only thing that costs less...apparently you think that is 90% of manufacturing costs, when in reality it is less than 10%, and often times it is way less than 10%. Labor (in both design, construction, and management) is the principal expense in manufacturing.

Yeah if anything they're far more difficult to manufacture and keep ultralight, but also ultra durable. MX bikes have much more room for weight, in fact too little weight could be a bad thing. But each MTB component has to be as light as possible while still being durable and functionable . Difficult task for sure.
RandyS
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Grass Valley, CA US
9/12/2014 6:33pm
I feel like I'm at Interbike with a bunch of reps trying to justify their $10k bikes. A mountain bike has a quarter of the pieces, technology, and R&D a current 450 has.
Katoomey
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9/12/2014 6:50pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2014 6:53pm
RandyS wrote:
I feel like I'm at Interbike with a bunch of reps trying to justify their $10k bikes. A mountain bike has a quarter of the pieces...
I feel like I'm at Interbike with a bunch of reps trying to justify their $10k bikes. A mountain bike has a quarter of the pieces, technology, and R&D a current 450 has.
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is...

if one company could sell high-end MTB's at half of their competitor, they would. then the others would lower their prices- then, before too long, they would all be at market value. like fucking magic

and in case your really stupid- market value is considered (in all economies) to be fair. I'm gonna go out on a limb here (2 foot thick Oak) and say MTB's are very close to market value, considering the amount of companies in that market.

I feel like I'm telling this to 10 year olds.
RandyS
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Grass Valley, CA US
9/12/2014 7:02pm
RandyS wrote:
I feel like I'm at Interbike with a bunch of reps trying to justify their $10k bikes. A mountain bike has a quarter of the pieces...
I feel like I'm at Interbike with a bunch of reps trying to justify their $10k bikes. A mountain bike has a quarter of the pieces, technology, and R&D a current 450 has.
Katoomey wrote:
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is... if one company...
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is...

if one company could sell high-end MTB's at half of their competitor, they would. then the others would lower their prices- then, before too long, they would all be at market value. like fucking magic

and in case your really stupid- market value is considered (in all economies) to be fair. I'm gonna go out on a limb here (2 foot thick Oak) and say MTB's are very close to market value, considering the amount of companies in that market.

I feel like I'm telling this to 10 year olds.
That's how it works in most markets, but yes without conspiring I think the bike industry as a whole has inched perception up the last 10-15 years to where they can sell a 10k bike that doesn't need to be. Mock all you want, I've been a small US manufacturer in one form or another for 35 years, some of those in the bike industry.
HazemG
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LA, CA US
9/12/2014 7:09pm
Katoomey wrote:
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is... if one company...
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is...

if one company could sell high-end MTB's at half of their competitor, they would. then the others would lower their prices- then, before too long, they would all be at market value. like fucking magic

and in case your really stupid- market value is considered (in all economies) to be fair. I'm gonna go out on a limb here (2 foot thick Oak) and say MTB's are very close to market value, considering the amount of companies in that market.

I feel like I'm telling this to 10 year olds.
+1

Econ 101
nytsmaC
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Frig Off CA
9/12/2014 7:21pm
Katoomey wrote:
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is... if one company...
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is...

if one company could sell high-end MTB's at half of their competitor, they would. then the others would lower their prices- then, before too long, they would all be at market value. like fucking magic

and in case your really stupid- market value is considered (in all economies) to be fair. I'm gonna go out on a limb here (2 foot thick Oak) and say MTB's are very close to market value, considering the amount of companies in that market.

I feel like I'm telling this to 10 year olds.
Premix Junky?
Skippie
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CA US
9/12/2014 7:28pm
After demoing a Specialized Demo II I can definitely say the next time I have 6500 lying around I know where my money is going.
9/12/2014 8:04pm
peelout wrote:
i have about 400 miles on my PEDAL bike this year and probably close to 20,000 feet. i have about 2,500 miles on my KTM this...
i have about 400 miles on my PEDAL bike this year and probably close to 20,000 feet.

i have about 2,500 miles on my KTM this year (mexico racked them up quick).

i love them both equally. my KTM was $6500 and i've put easily $2000 into it this year. my pedal bike was $3000 and i've put $20 worth of Tubeless sealant in the tires.

word, bro
TeamGreen wrote:
Peely: 1

T/G : 0


But, at-least my Johnson is waterproof & wrapped....(Leatt Factory protection. Remind me to get you one...Fucking HILARIOUS!)
I think your point is still valid. If I had an extra 8 grand laying around, I would be buying something with a motor in it. Smile
9/12/2014 8:39pm
Dirtbikes are really cheap these days compared to other vehicles or hobbies imo.

You can buy a brand new dirtbike for under 2k down and around 100 bucks a month. Really good deal in my opinion.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
9/12/2014 9:00pm
Katoomey wrote:
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is... if one company...
do you think that MTB companies conspired to raise their prices all together? certainly you guys understand what competition in the marketplace is...

if one company could sell high-end MTB's at half of their competitor, they would. then the others would lower their prices- then, before too long, they would all be at market value. like fucking magic

and in case your really stupid- market value is considered (in all economies) to be fair. I'm gonna go out on a limb here (2 foot thick Oak) and say MTB's are very close to market value, considering the amount of companies in that market.

I feel like I'm telling this to 10 year olds.
HazemG wrote:
+1

Econ 101
That's Marketing...

Economics is where you'd really make me laugh my ass off as you explain Keynesian, Monetarist or New Classical economic theories.

But, that's just me.

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