Factory electric MX motorcycles compared to production

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Edited Date/Time 4/10/2022 8:26am
The Japanese OEMs agreed to an universal battery configuration but how will factory machines be different to their production electric bikes? Runnng different software for performance gains or extended battery life? Next generation battery packs that are lighter and more powerful?

On a related issue, when pro racing stops focusing on ICE machines this will result in seismic changes in the aftermarket industry. I know the future is coming but I hope it takes forever to get here.

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scott_nz
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scott_nz 4/9/2022 2:01pm
4/9/2022 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 3:07pm
Leave Us To wrote:
The Japanese OEMs agreed to an universal battery configuration but how will factory machines be different to their production electric bikes? Runnng different software for performance...
The Japanese OEMs agreed to an universal battery configuration but how will factory machines be different to their production electric bikes? Runnng different software for performance gains or extended battery life? Next generation battery packs that are lighter and more powerful?

On a related issue, when pro racing stops focusing on ICE machines this will result in seismic changes in the aftermarket industry. I know the future is coming but I hope it takes forever to get here.

The shared battery is more for the commuter bikes / scooters. I doubt they will use that system on mx bikes or sports bikes even
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#434
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#434 4/9/2022 2:06pm
4/9/2022 2:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 2:26pm
Before thinking about a factory effort, let’s first see an electric bike from the big four. Doesn’t look like one of the established brands is in a big hurry developing an electric bike. They wanna sell what they have and make money doin so.

True. Just like with electric cars, there’s not much left to do for aftermarket companies. Suspension and brakes (edit: and wheels of course). That’s it.
Also much less maintenance to do on electric cars and bike compared to the ones with an engine. That will kill a lot of shops and garages.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 2:54pm
4/9/2022 2:54pm
I don’t know if they’re in a hurry or not but they are certainly developing them. I’d say they aren’t very far off from a production model.


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#434
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#434 4/9/2022 3:07pm
4/9/2022 3:07pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
I don’t know if they’re in a hurry or not but they are certainly developing them. I’d say they aren’t very far off from a production...
I don’t know if they’re in a hurry or not but they are certainly developing them. I’d say they aren’t very far off from a production model.


That is not coming from Honda. Mugen made this prototype and it’s been around for a while without much development or a serious attempt to bring it to the market.
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kiwifan 4/9/2022 3:35pm
4/9/2022 3:35pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
I don’t know if they’re in a hurry or not but they are certainly developing them. I’d say they aren’t very far off from a production...
I don’t know if they’re in a hurry or not but they are certainly developing them. I’d say they aren’t very far off from a production model.


#434 wrote:
That is not coming from Honda. Mugen made this prototype and it’s been around for a while without much development or a serious attempt to bring...
That is not coming from Honda. Mugen made this prototype and it’s been around for a while without much development or a serious attempt to bring it to the market.
how do you know there has been no development or a plan to get it to production?
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 3:57pm
4/9/2022 3:57pm
Well obviously Honda isn’t planning any sort of electric MX bike according to Mr 434. Mugen was working in conjunction with Honda on developing it. As they’ve done with other projects.

Honda CR-E
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 4/9/2022 4:51pm
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If they use a standardized size of the batt, then it will be all about energy density... you'll see heavier packs as they increase density....

Is voltage locked? If not... Different cell designs result in higher per cell voltage..

Also... cells put out optimal voltage at a certain temp... let's say 130f... keeping the cells at their preferred temp is good for a lot of power compared to ambient, or too hot (hotter than 150ish)

As far as raw cells... expect at the factory level for them to be using the top 5 percent of cells... or maybe even top 1 percent of those tested... only the best cells will be used to make their packs.... no duds...

And or you can use a transformer to take a 100v pack to 200v... at a massive loss of efficiency of course...

Or you can simply overcharge a pack if voltage isn't locked.... reduces cell life, but at the factory level, packs will probably be used a max of 10 cycles... packs only put out their best ever voltage one time .. usually around the 5th cycle, but that varies a bit on the chemistry design of the cell... the factories will want the pack being used in the main to be on its best cycle...

I think the motor side of things is where it will get real esoteric.... so many different styles, sizes, and winds of motors (unless that is locked).. and if getting an extra 500 watts costs an extra 10 grand on the motor, the factory will spend it... a fully hand built and hand tuned outrunner doesn't come cheap

I have no idea about rules for timing... but you can get a lot of free power be upping the timing... either mechanically at the motor, and/or electrically.... the factories shouldn't have any advantage via timing... other than they will be willing to completely de mag a 20k motor every moto and not worry about it because of use of extreme levels of timing...

But here is my guess- other than overtemping and not worrying about replacement costs.... and having raw dollars to only use the very best raw cells... I would think a works bike wouldn't be a bunch faster than a full aftermarket built bike... maybe 5 percent more power at most... unless they have a good cheat.... Ala f1
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nickm
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nickm 4/9/2022 5:35pm
4/9/2022 5:35pm
The auto industry is already working at a standard battery cell shape/size given that there are a handful of suppliers that manufacture batteries (ie the usual giant industrial engineering firms like Bosch, LG, Panasonic etc). iike everything else on the planet there will be huge leaps in tech, and huge differences between eco batteries vs high performance batteries. Also differences in the motor technology and the software that controls it (arguably the most difficult part of an electric powertrain). Big power is easy to make with electric so I suppose FIM and other sanctioning bodies will have to develop regulations.

That said, most motorcycle sales globally are to continents with no ICE stoppage mandate, so any electric development is targeted truly at North America, Europe and China, where buyers are affluent enough to spend $$ for these machines.
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#434
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#434 4/9/2022 9:58pm
4/9/2022 9:58pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
Well obviously Honda isn’t planning any sort of electric MX bike according to Mr 434. Mugen was working in conjunction with Honda on developing it. As...
Well obviously Honda isn’t planning any sort of electric MX bike according to Mr 434. Mugen was working in conjunction with Honda on developing it. As they’ve done with other projects.

Honda CR-E
Thanks RaceFace for supporting my argument. The link you’ve provided is from 2019 and since then they‘ve shown the bike a few times with no visible changes.
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Zoom
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Zoom 4/10/2022 6:27am
4/10/2022 6:27am
As a employee for one of the Japanese OEM's I can tell you that they are all working on EV and it's a major focus for all of them.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/10/2022 6:47am
4/10/2022 6:47am
RaceFace58 wrote:
Well obviously Honda isn’t planning any sort of electric MX bike according to Mr 434. Mugen was working in conjunction with Honda on developing it. As...
Well obviously Honda isn’t planning any sort of electric MX bike according to Mr 434. Mugen was working in conjunction with Honda on developing it. As they’ve done with other projects.

Honda CR-E
#434 wrote:
Thanks RaceFace for supporting my argument. The link you’ve provided is from 2019 and since then they‘ve shown the bike a few times with no visible...
Thanks RaceFace for supporting my argument. The link you’ve provided is from 2019 and since then they‘ve shown the bike a few times with no visible changes.
How long you think they develop a gas powered model for moron? Throw in that it’s a completely different concept and the first time it’s been done? I’m sure Honda will start developing their 2027 model is January of 2026. Oh and btw, the manufacturers always show where they are in development for other manufacturers to rip them off. Youve Got to be a complete idiot if you think Kawasaki announced they won’t have a single gas powered model in 2035 but have yet to start developing anything. I guess you could be that stupid?
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Leave Us To 4/10/2022 7:07am
4/10/2022 7:07am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2022 7:09am
RaceFace58 zero need to be so rude. Moron, idiot and stupid all in same post over bench racing about the future. Wow.
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tcannon521 4/10/2022 7:25am
4/10/2022 7:25am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2022 7:39am
nickm wrote:
The auto industry is already working at a standard battery cell shape/size given that there are a handful of suppliers that manufacture batteries (ie the usual...
The auto industry is already working at a standard battery cell shape/size given that there are a handful of suppliers that manufacture batteries (ie the usual giant industrial engineering firms like Bosch, LG, Panasonic etc). iike everything else on the planet there will be huge leaps in tech, and huge differences between eco batteries vs high performance batteries. Also differences in the motor technology and the software that controls it (arguably the most difficult part of an electric powertrain). Big power is easy to make with electric so I suppose FIM and other sanctioning bodies will have to develop regulations.

That said, most motorcycle sales globally are to continents with no ICE stoppage mandate, so any electric development is targeted truly at North America, Europe and China, where buyers are affluent enough to spend $$ for these machines.
Just curious, where do you think most sales of motorcycles go that doesn’t have a mandate? India is the only other major country you didn’t mention and they have one as well.
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#434
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#434 4/10/2022 8:18am
4/10/2022 8:18am
Zoom wrote:
As a employee for one of the Japanese OEM's I can tell you that they are all working on EV and it's a major focus for...
As a employee for one of the Japanese OEM's I can tell you that they are all working on EV and it's a major focus for all of them.
Cool, that‘s good to hear! EVs in general or also specially electric dirt bikes?
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#434
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#434 4/10/2022 8:26am
4/10/2022 8:26am
Leave Us To wrote:
RaceFace58 zero need to be so rude. Moron, idiot and stupid all in same post over bench racing about the future. Wow.
Don’t worry. If you read through the stuff he’s posted in other threads, you‘ll realize that he’s not capable of stringing two arguments together and that he quickly reverts to posts like that. However, it’s kinda fun to get him fired up!
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