What is an MX track anyway ?

early
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9/8/2015 6:37pm
Thats a fun video to watch, but todays riders on todays bikes racing around that exact same track would look much different i believe. The National tracks have been containing many more natural terrain obstacles recently compared to going back and watching races from 1995-2005.
Crush
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9/8/2015 6:45pm
KennyT wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/09/08/104430/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


This has always been what I think of when I think of MX... I'm just old enough that my first memories of MX are more like "scrambles".... I'd love to see tracks like this now...
The Rock
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9/8/2015 6:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 11:12am
DC wrote:
Rock, that race in Michigan was a purpose-built outdoor "supercross" track but they couldn't call it a "supercross" and also have an AMA sanction. They also...
Rock, that race in Michigan was a purpose-built outdoor "supercross" track but they couldn't call it a "supercross" and also have an AMA sanction. They also didn't run that track during the day -- they had a hill section and tamed or even detoured around some of the bigger jumps. It was run by Amy and Tim Ritchie, who know motocross pretty well and do a big race in Michigan called "Red Bud." Why slam them for putting on a cool race and paying out a bunch of money to privateers?

I really wish you would start your own track, with those "useless" yellow marks and no jumps, run for the AMA's Board of Directors, start making and selling quieter pipes, and just bury your contempt for American promoters with a bulldozer by showing us all how it really works. Then we could come online and complain out loud and write really stupid stuff like this:

"Is MX in 2015 actually MX in many states in the US? Have we stopped the momentum to have MX in the US actually be SX outdoors?"

DC
MX Sports
I really wish you could stay on the subject and not be like a woman that every time she's upset out comes the laundry list of past things (like your sound comment) that have made her unhappy in the past.

In reality (the place without forums to spin the truth) your comment about my contempt for American promoters is just whack and doesn't even warrant a response. It is easy to come on Vital MX and say stuff just like it is when you e mail me and make false accusations. To date I haven't received anything to back up your e mail accusations but feel free to provide examples of my contempt for US promoters here on Vital MX. If you can't please stop making baseless accusations.

To your "start making and selling quieter pipes" what decade is this and when is the last time you've seen me make a post that anywhere resembles me calling for quieter bikes? I as recent as LAST WEEK made a post that is pretty much the exact opposite as what you just posted about me and sound.

Here is an excerpt of mine from this thread in response to Moto810's bagging on pipe builders and OEMs for not building quieter pipes and motorcycles.


the OEMs are working hard to get another 2db out of the exhausts to get it down to the coming FIM 112 level plus a variance of 1.9 decibels in 2019.

At the present time engine noise (mechanical whirring) and induction noise compete heavily with the exhaust note today at 114 dB. When the sound drops in 2019 to 112 dB this will only exacerbate the issue so the OEMs have their work cut out of them. I honestly don't see the OEMS being able to produce a race machine quieter than 112 dB so personally I don't see any merit in asking anyone how low can we go since we are there now. Others might have a different take but that's my 2 cents.

On the other side of sound equation is sound testing. Some professional sanctioning bodies take sound more seriously than others. Sound testing in amateur competition that last time I looked it isn't very prevalent and is why I cautioned you on getting too riled up bagging on pipe companies and the OEMs. No motivation for racers to buy quiet exhausts when so little sound testing is performed in the US outside of AMA SX.

In Europe it is night and day different since they suffer even more from land use issues so it is second nature for them to be in front of the sound issue.




Outsider
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9/8/2015 7:09pm
For ME it would be REM or the old Gorman track... for ME to go pay money to watch pros race, it would Glen Helen, Red Bud, Budd's creek etc.

I'd prefer not to watch today's pros battle it out on that old Unadilla track... the bikes now are far too advanced and the riders too skilled to make that exciting... IMO

The Shop

Motodave15
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9/8/2015 7:52pm
Outsider wrote:
For [i][b]ME[/b][/i] it would be REM or the old Gorman track... for ME to go pay money to watch pros race, it would Glen Helen, Red...
For ME it would be REM or the old Gorman track... for ME to go pay money to watch pros race, it would Glen Helen, Red Bud, Budd's creek etc.

I'd prefer not to watch today's pros battle it out on that old Unadilla track... the bikes now are far too advanced and the riders too skilled to make that exciting... IMO
This is what i was thinking

The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk

Plus, it would literally be WFO... and they could huck the shit out of those (nowadays tiny bumps)

I like where MX is at currently.

Sx on the other hand, needs track improvements... and less cookie-cutters.... (That discussion thread will be started sometime in december though lol) it pops up every year
jamma10
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9/9/2015 2:05am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 2:14am
Outsider wrote:
For [i][b]ME[/b][/i] it would be REM or the old Gorman track... for ME to go pay money to watch pros race, it would Glen Helen, Red...
For ME it would be REM or the old Gorman track... for ME to go pay money to watch pros race, it would Glen Helen, Red Bud, Budd's creek etc.

I'd prefer not to watch today's pros battle it out on that old Unadilla track... the bikes now are far too advanced and the riders too skilled to make that exciting... IMO
Motodave15 wrote:
This is what i was thinking The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 [url=https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk]https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk[/url] Plus...
This is what i was thinking

The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk

Plus, it would literally be WFO... and they could huck the shit out of those (nowadays tiny bumps)

I like where MX is at currently.

Sx on the other hand, needs track improvements... and less cookie-cutters.... (That discussion thread will be started sometime in december though lol) it pops up every year
'The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk Plus, it would literally be WFO... and they could huck the shit out of those (nowadays tiny bumps)'

Half the reason riders are WFO these days are precisely because they harrow everything and groom the tracks to the riders liking. Naturally whooped out sections and irregular undulations like that are flattened to make way for a smoother, faster tracks that supposedly provide better racing. I highlighted that particular section because I dont think even modern bikes would breeze through them. Of course they're not going to be too problematic but I think you'll find they're bigger than they look at first glance on that video.

Other than big jumps and the occasional set of rollers what do modern tracks offer in the way of a technical challenge? They tend to be loamy, perfectly flat and very fast. I'm well aware of the importance of presentation for TV but I sometimes feel that beautification has taken priority over everything else.

I don't want to sound as though I'm whining, I'm happy enough with modern MX on the whole, but I do think it's become a bit too generic and standardised. I want to see the best riders in the world challenged and struggle a bit - which is probably why I like watching mud races and thought that little sharp, steep hill at Glen Helen this year was cool.
TXDirt
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9/9/2015 7:41am
Wait a minute, someone posted a baseless opinion due to the fact that they were not fully aware of all the facts but that didn't stop them for posting their skewed opinion anyways... Whistling

What's next? You going to tell me they are back tracking now to save face?

News @ 11: Water is wet. Grinning
The Rock
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9/9/2015 11:07am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 11:36am
Wait a minute, someone posted a baseless opinion due to the fact that they were not fully aware of all the facts but that didn't stop them for posting their skewed opinion anyway

It was Tuesday on Vital MX what do you expect? Seriously don't get all high and mighty considering the reception the truth/facts gets around here on a regular basis.

How Mickey Mouse is it that because of "rules" you can't build an outdoor SX for a one off race and call it a SX race?
Easy fix and one that isn't misleading: Why not call outdoor SX tracks FastCross and be done with it? it is obvious that a lot of people like outdoor tracks with SX obstacles. Maybe instead of fighting this uphill battle trying to keep MX motocross let's have a new discipline that appeals to the ever diminishing numbers of riders at the local level.

For the sake of future generations it would be good to have a name like FastCross that can be associated with the decline of our sport.
The Rock
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9/9/2015 11:10am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 11:11am
KennyT wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/09/08/104430/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


Photos like this remind me of just how "lucky" those guys were being able to stay on the track and away from the banners without Acerbis track markers. I went to races without Acerbis track markers back in the day but I don't remember the races having to be stopped regularly to have the banners fixed.

The yellow fencing looks like the trick nylon webbing Jerry Aschinger debuted at Winchester MX track in Winchester, Indiana back in 1974. Up until then wooden snow fencing was the order of the day so this nylon material was huge improvement.


The Rock
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9/9/2015 11:17am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 11:38am
jamma10 wrote:
[i]'The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk[/i] Plus, it would literally be WFO... and...
'The riders with their suspension would blitz the shit out of that uphill in the video at :55 https://youtu.be/204N0adkXUk Plus, it would literally be WFO... and they could huck the shit out of those (nowadays tiny bumps)'

Half the reason riders are WFO these days are precisely because they harrow everything and groom the tracks to the riders liking. Naturally whooped out sections and irregular undulations like that are flattened to make way for a smoother, faster tracks that supposedly provide better racing. I highlighted that particular section because I dont think even modern bikes would breeze through them. Of course they're not going to be too problematic but I think you'll find they're bigger than they look at first glance on that video.

Other than big jumps and the occasional set of rollers what do modern tracks offer in the way of a technical challenge? They tend to be loamy, perfectly flat and very fast. I'm well aware of the importance of presentation for TV but I sometimes feel that beautification has taken priority over everything else.

I don't want to sound as though I'm whining, I'm happy enough with modern MX on the whole, but I do think it's become a bit too generic and standardised. I want to see the best riders in the world challenged and struggle a bit - which is probably why I like watching mud races and thought that little sharp, steep hill at Glen Helen this year was cool.
Great post. The new MXA has an article on the GH National and Jody Weisel talked about the controversy "that little sharp, steep hill at GH" stirred up.

As a fan of MX I don't think I have been "as turned on" (for lack of a better expression) watching RD5 and ET3 flowing over that incredibly difficult portion of the track since I was watching DeCoster work the famous off camber tree turn at Mammoth on a MXA/Pro Circuit Honda in the early 90s.

Why is it that no matter what the activity the people that are the best at their profession ALWAYS MAKE IT LOOK SO EASY?



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