Yamaha E bike

gjbruny
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gjbruny
Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 7:03pm
just saw this; https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2018/0323/ty-e.html

looks like yamaha is working on an E trials bike. the biggest thing that i took away from this is that it has a clutch. that is the one thing that is holding me back from buying an Alta MXR. once Alta offers an aftermarket clutch/ESC i will own one. i know they have said that they don't have any plans to put one on at the moment.... i just hope they don't wait too long until the big 6 offer bikes with them. i would much rather support a US company.

looks like the yami has an actual mechanical clutch... i think a clutch lever wired into the ESC would serve the purpose well without adding much if any weight and wouldn't add to the gyroscopic forces that make the Alta FEEL so light... but what do i know.
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seth505
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seth505 3/23/2018 7:44am
3/23/2018 7:44am
Have you tried one (alta)? It doesn't really need a clutch, even though I like the idea of one since I'm used to them.
gjbruny
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gjbruny 3/23/2018 7:54am
3/23/2018 7:54am
seth505 wrote:
Have you tried one (alta)? It doesn't really need a clutch, even though I like the idea of one since I'm used to them.
yep, got to ride my first redshift MX last weekend at an offroad event. fantastic bike! but i still want/need a clutch. i don't want to argue that.... i just want one and feel i would benefit from it. some people may not and i probably don't need it on the MX track.... but offroad/technical single track i want/need it. i am not the only person that feels this way.

i would be happy if Alta offered it as an accessory so that guys that didn't want it didn't have to pay for it.
TerryB
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TerryB 3/23/2018 8:09am
3/23/2018 8:09am
seth505 wrote:
Have you tried one (alta)? It doesn't really need a clutch, even though I like the idea of one since I'm used to them.
gjbruny wrote:
yep, got to ride my first redshift MX last weekend at an offroad event. fantastic bike! but i still want/need a clutch. i don't want to...
yep, got to ride my first redshift MX last weekend at an offroad event. fantastic bike! but i still want/need a clutch. i don't want to argue that.... i just want one and feel i would benefit from it. some people may not and i probably don't need it on the MX track.... but offroad/technical single track i want/need it. i am not the only person that feels this way.

i would be happy if Alta offered it as an accessory so that guys that didn't want it didn't have to pay for it.
This is my feeling as well. Maybe my riding style is less than ideal, but I would want a clutch too.

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Steadman
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Steadman 3/23/2018 8:09am
3/23/2018 8:09am
seth505 wrote:
Have you tried one (alta)? It doesn't really need a clutch, even though I like the idea of one since I'm used to them.
Purely for safety reasons I would not want to ride an off-road motorcycle with a clutch. Glad to see Yamaha has one on this.
motomike137
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motomike137 3/23/2018 8:19am
3/23/2018 8:19am
Does an Alta freewheel if you close the "throttle"? I'm trying to get my head wrapped around why this bike needs a clutch.
LowPsi
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LowPsi 3/23/2018 8:23am
3/23/2018 8:23am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 9:14am
motomike137 wrote:
Does an Alta freewheel if you close the "throttle"? I'm trying to get my head wrapped around why this bike needs a clutch.
Trials riders use 50% Clutch and 50% throttle. It's all about the clutch.


They will compete in the FIM Trial E Championship

http://www.trialgp.com/index.php/news3/562-yamaha-and-kuroyama-to-conte…
loftyair
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loftyair 3/23/2018 8:33am
3/23/2018 8:33am
My vote is for a 'clutch', I use it. I rode the Alta, wish there was a clutch.
seth505
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seth505 3/23/2018 8:39am
3/23/2018 8:39am
seth505 wrote:
Have you tried one (alta)? It doesn't really need a clutch, even though I like the idea of one since I'm used to them.
gjbruny wrote:
yep, got to ride my first redshift MX last weekend at an offroad event. fantastic bike! but i still want/need a clutch. i don't want to...
yep, got to ride my first redshift MX last weekend at an offroad event. fantastic bike! but i still want/need a clutch. i don't want to argue that.... i just want one and feel i would benefit from it. some people may not and i probably don't need it on the MX track.... but offroad/technical single track i want/need it. i am not the only person that feels this way.

i would be happy if Alta offered it as an accessory so that guys that didn't want it didn't have to pay for it.
I think it would be cool as well but on the other hand it's crazy how even in offroad stuff you can literally stop on top of a rock drop off and then throttle off it (where as on a gas bike you'd need to dump the clutch).
GeorgiePorgie 3/23/2018 9:03am
3/23/2018 9:03am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 9:06am
loftyair wrote:
My vote is for a 'clutch', I use it. I rode the Alta, wish there was a clutch.
Why ? How bout a rear hand brake ? You don’t need a clutch on an electric bike. Roll on the power. No need to spike some rpms when the bike falls on its face because electric won’t fall on its face. So why a clutch is needed? Use your brakes for modulation. “Pap how do you even ride this thing? It keeps stalling!”

I think what’s gonna be cool is when I’m 70 and my grand kids are all riding electric bikes, old pap will pull out one of them there fuel-takin bikes with clutch and show them electric whipper snappers how it’s done.
Tim507
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Tim507 3/23/2018 9:08am
3/23/2018 9:08am
LowPsi wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/23/251439/s1200_Yamaha_TY_E.jpg[/img] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=otuI3HI0U2E






https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=otuI3HI0U2E
Damn! Sweetness - Just called contacted my local dealer........suppose we are a few years out - oh well the E Market is beginning to take off. Alta better step it up........
loftyair
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loftyair 3/23/2018 9:21am
3/23/2018 9:21am
loftyair wrote:
My vote is for a 'clutch', I use it. I rode the Alta, wish there was a clutch.
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Why ? How bout a rear hand brake ? You don’t need a clutch on an electric bike. Roll on the power. No need to spike...
Why ? How bout a rear hand brake ? You don’t need a clutch on an electric bike. Roll on the power. No need to spike some rpms when the bike falls on its face because electric won’t fall on its face. So why a clutch is needed? Use your brakes for modulation. “Pap how do you even ride this thing? It keeps stalling!”

I think what’s gonna be cool is when I’m 70 and my grand kids are all riding electric bikes, old pap will pull out one of them there fuel-takin bikes with clutch and show them electric whipper snappers how it’s done.
Yeah, that would work great too. More 'control' at my disposal. The right wrist by itself can be risky. Even with a clutch and brakes, shat happens. Just something for my left index or middle finger to do, that adds control or safety.
easydoesit
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easydoesit 3/23/2018 9:32am
3/23/2018 9:32am
The need to send one over to joeymac420 for testing.
Bultaco
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Bultaco 3/23/2018 9:33am
3/23/2018 9:33am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 9:35am
The clutch on a 2-stroke is to smooth out the hard hit.

The clutch on a 4-stroke is to simulate the hard hit.

The clutch on an electric bike would just be extra weight.

Note: Actual results and user experiences may vary. ;-)
MXD
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MXD 3/23/2018 9:58am
3/23/2018 9:58am
Bultaco wrote:
The clutch on a 2-stroke is to smooth out the hard hit. The clutch on a 4-stroke is to simulate the hard hit. The clutch on...
The clutch on a 2-stroke is to smooth out the hard hit.

The clutch on a 4-stroke is to simulate the hard hit.

The clutch on an electric bike would just be extra weight.

Note: Actual results and user experiences may vary. ;-)
Those were my thoughts as well. With 147 ft-lbs of torque (in the Alta as an example), you can pretty much program any hit you want. I think it's more that people need to get used to it. Old habits die hard.
.kyle
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.kyle 3/23/2018 10:03am
3/23/2018 10:03am
Riding the Alta and you fall over throttle side down and it holds the throttle WFO. Without a clutch how do you kill the drive quickly to make it easy/safe to pick up? (Clutched bike you would just pull in the lever, pick the bike up and go)
JB 19
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JB 19 3/23/2018 10:11am
3/23/2018 10:11am
I think for trials and off road an electric bike with no clutch would be awesome......the reason is you could hold the brake on with partial throttle and load up the drive train and suspension and "pop" the brake off for jumping over or onto stuff.

Basically like drag racing an automatic turbo car.
early
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early 3/23/2018 10:22am
3/23/2018 10:22am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 10:26am
.kyle wrote:
Riding the Alta and you fall over throttle side down and it holds the throttle WFO. Without a clutch how do you kill the drive quickly...
Riding the Alta and you fall over throttle side down and it holds the throttle WFO. Without a clutch how do you kill the drive quickly to make it easy/safe to pick up? (Clutched bike you would just pull in the lever, pick the bike up and go)
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early
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early 3/23/2018 10:24am
3/23/2018 10:24am
.kyle wrote:
Riding the Alta and you fall over throttle side down and it holds the throttle WFO. Without a clutch how do you kill the drive quickly...
Riding the Alta and you fall over throttle side down and it holds the throttle WFO. Without a clutch how do you kill the drive quickly to make it easy/safe to pick up? (Clutched bike you would just pull in the lever, pick the bike up and go)
Stop button

On/off key


Josh422
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Josh422 3/23/2018 12:39pm
3/23/2018 12:39pm
The guys that say Alta needs a clutch are the same guys that would say it needs a Rekluse if it had a clutch.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 3/23/2018 1:42pm
3/23/2018 1:42pm
It wouldn't be hard to make up an electronic clutch simulator for the Alta. I'd imagine the throttle is just a position sensor. If you had a clutch lever with a position sensor also, you could basically multiply the signals together and feed that to the ecu. E.g. throttle at 50% open and clutch 50% engaged gives you 25% required output. Without having an actual clutch in the engine, it'd save weight and the clutch pull would be as light you could get. You just wouldn't be able to build revs in the engine, but I don't think that would be necessary for an electric motor
.kyle
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.kyle 3/23/2018 1:54pm
3/23/2018 1:54pm
early - thanks for the diagrams. I would have figured a clutch lever would be easier to grab than trying to aim for a little on/off button or a small key, especially when you've dumped the bike and all you can think of is to get going on route for the big win.
early
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early 3/23/2018 2:03pm
3/23/2018 2:03pm
.kyle wrote:
early - thanks for the diagrams. I would have figured a clutch lever would be easier to grab than trying to aim for a little on/off...
early - thanks for the diagrams. I would have figured a clutch lever would be easier to grab than trying to aim for a little on/off button or a small key, especially when you've dumped the bike and all you can think of is to get going on route for the big win.
It's from the owner's manual which is downloadable from the Alta website.
endurox
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endurox 3/23/2018 5:55pm
3/23/2018 5:55pm
Need a clutch on a trials bike to load suspension for splatters
loftyair
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loftyair 3/23/2018 6:05pm
3/23/2018 6:05pm
Josh422 wrote:
The guys that say Alta needs a clutch are the same guys that would say it needs a Rekluse if it had a clutch.
Not me. I like clutch, not auto.
Steadman
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Steadman 3/23/2018 6:33pm
3/23/2018 6:33pm
loftyair wrote:
Yeah, that would work great too. More 'control' at my disposal. The right wrist by itself can be risky. Even with a clutch and brakes, shat...
Yeah, that would work great too. More 'control' at my disposal. The right wrist by itself can be risky. Even with a clutch and brakes, shat happens. Just something for my left index or middle finger to do, that adds control or safety.
I agree with you lofty air. I think many people are missing the point here. Leaving almost all of the control to just the throttle is risky business and I don't want people to chime in and say just use the brakes. Being able to instantly take away power away from the rear wheel is a must in so many situations. I would never buy a performance electric motorcycle without having clutch control.
mikec265
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mikec265 3/23/2018 6:43pm
3/23/2018 6:43pm
I try to always ride with a finger on the clutch for those oh shit moments in order to save my ass.

This new no hand on the clutch riding style bit Villapoto in the GPs and helped Roczen return to the injured list.
Ebs
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Ebs 3/23/2018 6:49pm
3/23/2018 6:49pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 6:52pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
It wouldn't be hard to make up an electronic clutch simulator for the Alta. I'd imagine the throttle is just a position sensor. If you had...
It wouldn't be hard to make up an electronic clutch simulator for the Alta. I'd imagine the throttle is just a position sensor. If you had a clutch lever with a position sensor also, you could basically multiply the signals together and feed that to the ecu. E.g. throttle at 50% open and clutch 50% engaged gives you 25% required output. Without having an actual clutch in the engine, it'd save weight and the clutch pull would be as light you could get. You just wouldn't be able to build revs in the engine, but I don't think that would be necessary for an electric motor
Interesting, so basically you'd have a 'lever operated throttle interlock'. It's just modulating the signal given by the throttle.

Get all huck-a-buck and whiskey throttle and you can still grab 'the clutch' to save the day.
StevieTimes
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StevieTimes 3/23/2018 7:02pm
3/23/2018 7:02pm Edited Date/Time 3/23/2018 7:03pm
/\ these guys get it
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ahhhhh crap am I on the next page? you get it.

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