1983 RM250 Build

Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee
Edited Date/Time 10/24/2020 8:26pm
Hay Gents!

I have started a race resto of a 1983 RM250 and I thought I would share the process I go through in doing so. I am not sure which way this build is going to go. Nut & bolt? Mechanical? Cosmetic? Unfortunately or fortunately, depending which side of the debit card you are on, I tend to go overboard on my race restos. A 100 percent mechanical restoration is a must, (especially if it going to hit the track) we can all agree on that. I also like my bikes to look good. That can mean mucho dollars, Depends how good you want it to look.

I see some amazing builds on here. Several of you have got some heavy coin in your machines. I applaud you! This resto will probably be on the short side of those high end builds.

Lets begin.

This is what I started out with. Purchased off of CL a couple weeks ago.




Crank, Cylinder & head are going to Eric Gorr to be massaged. The machine had a 82 head on it when I purchased it. Eric said he preferred a 83 head, so I am waiting on that to come in so I can box it all up & get it out to him.
More after a take a few pics...
|
Steve125
Profile picture for user Steve125
Posts
1370
Joined
11/24/2010
Location
CT US
Fantasy
3036th
Steve125 7/21/2016 10:50am
7/21/2016 10:50am
Nice bike to start with. Good luck with the build. I'll be following.
I just picked up an 82 yesterday.. Has 1984 forks on it. Mine is 100% mechanically rebuilt like new, but needs cosmetic restoration.
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 7/21/2016 11:38am
7/21/2016 11:38am Edited Date/Time 7/21/2016 11:40am
Thanks for the replies gents. Mini Elsinore: I am sure you will see more of that TA in pics to come.

Steve125: Mechanical resto is a must. After that it is up to the end user. Your bike does look sano. Well, 'cept the blue frame...

Yesterday I painted the frame & hung it to dry.



Yes my garage is cluttered. Yes it is a mess. Such is life...

A bit about paint...

I have always painted. Automotive paint. Sometimes base / clear, sometimes single stage. All over epoxy primer. I have been using an epoxy paint from Southern Polyurethanes. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/#!products/c19pa Very good stuff. And ship to your door to boot. Anywhoo, like I said I painted my frame yesterday with this EP. I fully had the intention of clearing right over the EP. In effect using the EP not only as a primer but a base coat too. After talking to the mfg. I have decided to leave the EP alone. No top coat. We will see how it goes.

I bet some peeps are wondering why I didn't powder coat it. I am not a big fan of PC. A lot of frames I have seen it just doesn't look right. Prolly too much powder, and it hides some of the detail of the frame ( not to mention the VIN number), welds, sharp ends etc. Plus I have heard that PC can hide a crack that is beginning to form. Remember, this is my opinion only. YMMV

I have also been fighting the satin black case paint issue. see thread elsewhere here on vital. I have always used PJ1/VHT satin case paint (yellow can) on my motors. Matched perfectly to the 80's Japanese motors. Since they discontinued the yellow can & came out with VHT satin Case Paint. Tried that & its a little too flat. I tried 4 different formulations of VHT paint until I found one I like. That be the VHT Satin Caliper Paint (black can). I have always had good adhesion and abrasion resistance with the old PJ1 yellow can paint. Time will tell if the VHT black can paint preforms just as well. Oh BTW, I shoot the paint right on the motor after media blasting it. No primer.

In the mean time lets talk suspension, shall we? My rear shock has no dampening. The PO told me he had Pro Action out of PA rebuild the shock last year. Well it didn't hold up. I will probably ship it out to Noleen in a week or so. Never tried them. Or maybe the reading public (you) has a better vendor? The front end I am kinda torn between 2 scenarios. Let em first say that the 83 250 front brake is not worth the gunpowder it would take to blow up said front end. I have an 88 RM250 front end. I plan to mount that up when I am racing non AHRMA events. I have on the way a set of 87 CR250 forks that I plan on modding to work with the stock tripples for AHRMA events. More on that in a later installment.

So now I am waiting for parts to come in so I can ship the motor out to Forward Motion.

I shall return when my wallet is a little lighter and I have an update.

Blue Skies,

Stan
Steve125
Profile picture for user Steve125
Posts
1370
Joined
11/24/2010
Location
CT US
Fantasy
3036th
Steve125 7/21/2016 12:49pm
7/21/2016 12:49pm
Yeah I don't like the blue frame either..

Oh by the way.. I've got a couple Poncho's too..
Great minds restore projects alike.. lol


The Shop

See All »
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 7/21/2016 1:19pm
7/21/2016 1:19pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2016 1:25pm
MMMM... A 76 Formy. Sweet ride!

UPDATE: 83 head came in today. Motor shipped of to Eric Gorr.

QUESTION: I see where DC plastics is repopping the Twin Air Single Sided Air Box. Does this mod: A) make the machine slimmer in the mid section? Cool Better/simpler filtration? C) Wow/bling factor only?

I would really like to hear some opinions. It would be worth it if it just make the bike slimmer, yanno?
Steve125
Profile picture for user Steve125
Posts
1370
Joined
11/24/2010
Location
CT US
Fantasy
3036th
Steve125 7/21/2016 1:44pm
7/21/2016 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2016 1:59pm
I've heard bad things about the DC airbox. Cheap, falls apart, slips off the carb etc.. Maybe others will chime in also.

Saw the first version of your reply.. lol. I also have an 02 WS6 T/A 6 speed, an 09 C6 Z06, and a 871 blown 66 Nova. No "G.M." in this household.. lol.
philG
Profile picture for user philG
Posts
10076
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
philG 7/21/2016 3:42pm
7/21/2016 3:42pm
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such a slug, and only found the head was different.. i read it on saturday morning , and had a head in the post that day... bike went from OK to unreal.

Eric has done our TM barrel, and its sweet , so i know he knows his stuff, but back in the day , it was the way to go.
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 7/21/2016 6:10pm
7/21/2016 6:10pm
philG wrote:
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such...
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such a slug, and only found the head was different.. i read it on saturday morning , and had a head in the post that day... bike went from OK to unreal.

Eric has done our TM barrel, and its sweet , so i know he knows his stuff, but back in the day , it was the way to go.
Agreed, Phil. Back in the day you bought a head & you were golden. To the best of my knowledge the only difference in the 82/3 motors were the head & timing. Others with an intimate knowledge of the breed may know of other differences.

I am looking for the 82 midrange, top end and top end over run and sprinkle in some low end. At 56 I need some low end! Grinning
lostboy819
Profile picture for user lostboy819
Posts
11863
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Black Forest , CO US
Fantasy
493rd
lostboy819 7/21/2016 9:29pm
7/21/2016 9:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2016 4:31pm
The head and timing were different and the flywheel was lighter on the 82. The hot ticket is the single side airbox if you can find a old twin air single side or a Roost factory air box and run a 82 flywheel and 82 head and also a stock pipe. The DG pipes kill the top end.Use the 82 parts and you will have a rocket of a bike. I have had a couple of the 82 RM250s and if you aint winning its not the bikes fault.








3
PRM31
Profile picture for user PRM31
Posts
2282
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
Northern, VA US
PRM31 7/22/2016 6:48am
7/22/2016 6:48am
Look forward to watching your progress. I raced an '82 in the 250 'A' class. Have you ridden it? I'd be curios of how the Full Floater feels compared to newer suspensions. At the time it was simply incredible. The 81 RM125 was the best bike I ever owned.
1
mxracer618 7/22/2016 8:12am
7/22/2016 8:12am
lostboy819 wrote:
The head and timing were different and the flywheel was lighter on the 82. The hot ticket is the single side airbox if you can find...
The head and timing were different and the flywheel was lighter on the 82. The hot ticket is the single side airbox if you can find a old twin air single side or a Roost factory air box and run a 82 flywheel and 82 head and also a stock pipe. The DG pipes kill the top end.Use the 82 parts and you will have a rocket of a bike. I have had a couple of the 82 RM250s and if you aint winning its not the bikes fault.








Great Pics! Can i steal these for the Old School Colorado Motocross FB Page?
philG
Profile picture for user philG
Posts
10076
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
philG 7/22/2016 3:51pm
7/22/2016 3:51pm
philG wrote:
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such...
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such a slug, and only found the head was different.. i read it on saturday morning , and had a head in the post that day... bike went from OK to unreal.

Eric has done our TM barrel, and its sweet , so i know he knows his stuff, but back in the day , it was the way to go.
Whymee wrote:
Agreed, Phil. Back in the day you bought a head & you were golden. To the best of my knowledge the only difference in the 82/3...
Agreed, Phil. Back in the day you bought a head & you were golden. To the best of my knowledge the only difference in the 82/3 motors were the head & timing. Others with an intimate knowledge of the breed may know of other differences.

I am looking for the 82 midrange, top end and top end over run and sprinkle in some low end. At 56 I need some low end! Grinning
Great bike, but we did the gearbox after 5 races,broke my arm getting spat off of it , and missed half the year, and did the box again the start of the following year , traded it as a basket case for an 84, which i broke the lock stops off, first time out. Oh and it fell over in our new van, killed a radiator and dented the van.



sandman768
Profile picture for user sandman768
Posts
6579
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
sandman768 7/22/2016 4:10pm
7/22/2016 4:10pm
Finished my 82 not too long ago, fun bike, no bottom, but when mid range kicks into the top end its great, by today's standards it's nothing to write home about but I bet back in 82 it was like" holy shit". I also have, An 84 & raced an 84 for a year back in 86. . Gore likely trying to give it some bottom end which the 83-84 had, but those bikes lost the top end hook. The 83-84 was easier to ride, but went flat on top. With a non power valve motor your going to have one or the other. I would try out your 83 with the 82 head & stock pipe, already have the 83 heavier flywheel, that may aid bottom somewhat. 84 front end is what this bike Needed the most, 38 to 43 mm big difference. Forget using the brakes, they don't work no matter what you do, just don't use them! Come in hard. Lay it over & get back on the gas! I had my shock rebuilt with racetech replacement parts, nothing special just new parts,oil & nitrogen, rear susp. Is good even by today's standards, could use a stiffer spring but I used stock spring. My problem is, I donot have a vintage friendly track close to me, you know, natural terrain, everything has the bigger jumps were all doing with ease on our new bikes, but these older bikes are just not made for that...for comparison, I have a freshly restored 88 rm 250 & I think the 82 is faster, but you have to work harder to make it go...
2
lostboy819
Profile picture for user lostboy819
Posts
11863
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Black Forest , CO US
Fantasy
493rd
lostboy819 7/22/2016 4:29pm
7/22/2016 4:29pm
mxracer618 wrote:
Great Pics! Can i steal these for the Old School Colorado Motocross FB Page?
Sure but they might already be on there. Cool
sandman768
Profile picture for user sandman768
Posts
6579
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
sandman768 7/22/2016 4:37pm
7/22/2016 4:37pm
philG wrote:
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such...
Im surprised Eric Gorr thinks the 83 head is better, MXA did the test on the 83 and stripped it to see why it was such a slug, and only found the head was different.. i read it on saturday morning , and had a head in the post that day... bike went from OK to unreal.

Eric has done our TM barrel, and its sweet , so i know he knows his stuff, but back in the day , it was the way to go.
Whymee wrote:
Agreed, Phil. Back in the day you bought a head & you were golden. To the best of my knowledge the only difference in the 82/3...
Agreed, Phil. Back in the day you bought a head & you were golden. To the best of my knowledge the only difference in the 82/3 motors were the head & timing. Others with an intimate knowledge of the breed may know of other differences.

I am looking for the 82 midrange, top end and top end over run and sprinkle in some low end. At 56 I need some low end! Grinning
philG wrote:
Great bike, but we did the gearbox after 5 races,broke my arm getting spat off of it , and missed half the year, and did the...
Great bike, but we did the gearbox after 5 races,broke my arm getting spat off of it , and missed half the year, and did the box again the start of the following year , traded it as a basket case for an 84, which i broke the lock stops off, first time out. Oh and it fell over in our new van, killed a radiator and dented the van.



Suzuki never had durable gearboxes, likely still don't. If your serious about racing this bike & have the cases split, replace any gear you can get your hands on! Surprisingly a lot of nos gears are still out there! Bad news is each gear will go for 50-100$ each! I was able to find more parts for the 82-83 than my 88. I kept my original airbox, what's better than cleaning a filter? Cleaning 2........... My bike came with a full DC plastics kit, I hate to bitch about DC as there are not a lot of options for these old bikes, and he does have a lot of good stuff, but the plastics are very brittle. Good for a racer but you will not be happy if your going for Oem type fit & finish. I restored the Oem side panels that also came with the bike. I did get a set of PRF foot pegs from DC that are super wide & fit nicely. Get an older YZ petcock, they are the same for like 20 years, flow much more gas than the Suzuki petcock, that was a period correct mod that really helped as the rm"s starved for fuel at high rpm.
1
Wandell
Profile picture for user Wandell
Posts
7561
Joined
12/17/2008
Location
Cairo, GA US
Wandell 7/22/2016 7:08pm
7/22/2016 7:08pm
Awesome project! I had an 83 and really enjoyed it. The single sided airboxes were a popular upgrade at the time as all the magazines said the stock setup sucked. The OEM airbox was easily modified to flow more air, but you still had to clean two air filters. The aftermarket airboxes just looked factory in the mid 80's! LOL
Also, love the Firebirds!
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 7/22/2016 7:08pm
7/22/2016 7:08pm
PRM31 wrote:
Look forward to watching your progress. I raced an '82 in the 250 'A' class. Have you ridden it? I'd be curios of how the Full...
Look forward to watching your progress. I raced an '82 in the 250 'A' class. Have you ridden it? I'd be curios of how the Full Floater feels compared to newer suspensions. At the time it was simply incredible. The 81 RM125 was the best bike I ever owned.
No I have not rode it. Well yes I did. Barely. Just enough to make sure the tranny had no issues. I did not get off the pilot jet. I did a race restore on one back in 08 along with an RM500 & headed to Ocala Fl. for my first PV race, an AHRMA national. Won my class and was so pissed off with the brakes I sold both bikes before I left the track that day. So I have some time on one. This one is going to be better. Much better. After I sold the RM's I got sellers remorse & lucked out on a fairly local 83 CR250. Still have it, great machine once you learn its quirks. Got a 480 too but I can't start it.

I haven't decided where the shock is going to be sent to. I am still sleeping on it.

Plastic. Personally, I do not like aftermarket plastic. The quality is horrible. Most are too shiny for a period resto. Plus being vacuum formed cannot match the detail of injection molded pieces. I would rather have faded out stockers than nice shiny new "others". I am not going to mention names. I have snagged (so far) a NOS rear fender and radiator shrouds. I just ordered NOS front fender, front number plate & one side plate. All still available from Suzuki. I think the left side panel & fuel tank are obsolete. None available in the USA, so my dealer says. I also got the interconnecting yellow piece between the rads, just ahead of the tank. I like New plastic...

I didn't realize that the Suzuki had problematic gearboxes. Something else to worry about.

I did notice that the clutch has only 5 plates. Most others have six or so. I bet it won't take the abuse given out on the track. Hope I am wrong.

I did score a NOS exhaust pipe. From all that I have read, and confirmed here, the DG system kills the top end. I will probably snag a new stock silencer too.

My debit card is getting a work out... Sick

Pit Row

See All »
wolfy0067
Profile picture for user wolfy0067
Posts
534
Joined
8/14/2014
Location
Wernersville, PA US
wolfy0067 7/25/2016 3:44am
7/25/2016 3:44am Edited Date/Time 7/25/2016 3:46am
Whymee, I restored and raced an 82 several years back, the DC air box is ok, it's the boot if over tightened it will slip off the carb. I also ran both the 82 and 83 heads, sticking with the 82. The 83 motor is a better engine overall, the trans is beefed up, the shifting has a roller drum not the out dated spring loaded drain plug setup. The crank has more mass, remember back in the day HP was everything broad power will equal faster lap times. Score a set of 84 forks, I will also tell you the single pull brake is just as good as the duel, I ran both ending up with the duel after spending hours of setup. with the single sided air box you can run a the 84 shock, it does take some modifications to the upper shock mount, again ran both the 83/84 give dampening adj.

If interested I still have two transmissions, 84 shock setup, fuel tanks, cone pipe, 84 triples and fork setup, possible duel f.b.plate, very rare fork guards and drum cover. I ran the DG pipe and mine screamed to the moon?
riv187
Profile picture for user riv187
Posts
532
Joined
2/1/2015
Location
Lakeland, FL US
riv187 8/7/2016 8:13am
8/7/2016 8:13am Edited Date/Time 8/7/2016 8:17am
I've raced my 83 the past 1 1/2 seasons here in fl and love it. I continue to tweak it but currently it has vforce 3 from 87 quad racer, 38 pwk from 01 cr250,dg pipe, 82 head. It has carried me to numerous holeshots and 1sts in 80-85 open class even against trick 490s,465,400s and more. It is top end, but I did notice improvements with the reed cage and carb swap was a real winner. I never even changed a single peice of brass in it. I run 32-1 race gas.Forks have gold valves, ongoing work. Double pull brake sucks. I use a vortex throttle to get it WFO quicker in corners. I want to have Eric port it next and cut a stock 83 head to test.


2
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 8/7/2016 9:27am
8/7/2016 9:27am
RIV187: You have a nice, clean and well sorted out machine there! Thanks for the heads up on the Vforce application. I was wondering what fit. Were did your seat cover come from? High Flite Ceet?

Some updates:

Found a well used Ohlins shock that came off of a 84 and sent it to Steve Marps for him to tweak to work on the 83. Seems these shocks are rarer than hens teeth.

Waiting for cylinder, head & crank to come back from Eric Gorr.

Wolfy0067: I still want some or all of your parts. Last weekend my FZ-10 came in & I had to shell out 12K that I did not expect to leave my hands for another couple weeks. I will be in touch.

Still ordering parts & reconditioning other assemblies to throw back on once some major parts show up. The life of a backyard restorer!

Blue Skies,

Stan
riv187
Profile picture for user riv187
Posts
532
Joined
2/1/2015
Location
Lakeland, FL US
riv187 8/8/2016 8:08pm
8/8/2016 8:08pm
I got it with this seat. I believe.it is a new 1984-85 foam and aftermarket cover, maybe ceet? The foam is stiff like new and flat on top like the 84/85.
I'd worry little about buying a certain 1984 fork and simply invest in a set of gold valves, correct springs for your weight/ability and seals wipers and bushings. Same for shock,, use yours and invest in rebuild parts gold valve and correct spring. Unless you are just trail riding the stock spring will likely be too soft and sacked out. Most 84/85 shocks I've seen had seized or broken compression knobs.
CamP
Profile picture for user CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
CamP 8/9/2016 1:43pm
8/9/2016 1:43pm
Whyme, I have the discontinued NOS right side number plate if you interested.
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 8/9/2016 2:15pm
8/9/2016 2:15pm
CamP wrote:
Whyme, I have the discontinued NOS right side number plate if you interested.
ABSOLUTELY!

Now if I can find NOS graphics...
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 12/28/2016 8:38am
12/28/2016 8:38am
Looks like it has been about 4 months since I have updated this build. I am happy to report things are coming together nicely, abet a bit slow.



I bit the bullet & snagged a Jemco pipe & silencer. I haven't decided what to do with the NOS stocker yet. Might sell it. The silencer is steel & really heavy. Nice craftsmanship though.

I went ahead with the 87 RM front end for now. Need to decide on color of boots...

Got the Shock back finally. I had no bushings for the install. Called up Pro Pilot Suspension and he is shipping me a lower spherical and the bushings to fit. (30mm total width). The upper shock mount is a whole 'nother story. I am assuming it had a sleeve & bushing setup. I had none of the parts to figure out what is what so I ended up with this setup. McMaster-Carr #6679K19 as a sleeve & a All Balls #40-2004 Pin (bushing) 10x16x20mm. I stll need to machine a couple bushings but that won't be hard.

I was wondering if anyone had a rezzy that fits the RM's mounting area better than the one I have. Steve did the best he could with what parts are available. It sticks out a bit much for my liking. If I do not find the correct one this is it for now.





I am also looking for a nice seat base and a 83 rear brake backing plate if anyone has one laying around hit me up.

That is it for now. I need to order parts from the dealer as well as new spokes from Buchannon's.

Stay warm...

rob.boucher.547 12/28/2016 10:00am
12/28/2016 10:00am Edited Date/Time 12/28/2016 10:06am
you need the longest silencer you can get,
stay away from the DG
Eibach .47 springs with gold valves /15 w , that is what
actually worked for my RM465/250 race bikes
Pro-Form or home made silencer(pic)


3
MaxPower
Profile picture for user MaxPower
Posts
2652
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
NJ US
MaxPower 12/28/2016 11:01am
12/28/2016 11:01am
What if you shortened the reservoir hose and mounted it behind your left foot? Like where a rear brake master would fit on a modern bike.
Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 1/16/2017 12:13pm
1/16/2017 12:13pm
Time for an update.

I have finished both wheel assys. Reused the stock rims & hubs & added Buchannon spoke kit. The front threw me off at first. Laced it up as it was stock. the spokes were WAY too long. Buchannon said that the spokes were designed for a cross 3 pattern (cross 2 is stock). Since this is only the second bike I have laced wheels for, it took a bit of trial & error to get the correct pattern. Threw on some new Michelin's. 51T PBI sprocket. Came out fine in the end.

CamP was so kind as to sell me a 1 ride, NOS right number plate and stock silencer. Thanks Cam!

Everything is back together although I need a few bits before it is ready to fire. One thing is bothering me is that I have all NOS plastic except the tank. I do have a line on one, but it is going to be expensive. When you are this far in, does it really pay to stop?

Whymee
Profile picture for user Whymee
Posts
579
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
WV US
Whymee 1/16/2017 12:54pm
1/16/2017 12:54pm
Yeah I know the previous post is worthless with out pics. Please accept my apologies...





2

Post a reply to: 1983 RM250 Build