Posts
1689
Joined
11/9/2009
Location
Avonmore, PA
US
Edited Date/Time
12/11/2018 5:38am
Since the original thread was hijacked and ran completely off the rails, I was hoping to get it back on track .
So what makes one bike worth more than another ?? Is it because of low production numbers like the 74 YZ360A (632) and 78 Harley MX250( supposedly 1,000) ? Or is it because it was a popular bike in the day that everyone raced at one time or another as in the Red Rockets or 76-78 Rm125's ? Or is it because it was the first of a model or the last of a model like the last air-cooled RM250 Full-floater. Or because it was deemed as one of the best bikes ever built -- 81 Maico 490 ? All of those reasons play a part in someones perception of value.
Speaking of the HD 250mx, that is one I really don't understand. I've seen ones in somewhat below average condition bring 5-7k and nice ones hit the 10k mark. Can't figure out why those are so popular. They weren't very good back in the day and I've run across at least 10-12 for sell or at races ,where as I have NEVER seen a 74 YZ360A for sale or in the flesh anywhere. Although I've heard a nice one would fetch 8-10k,its all conjecture as I've never run across one advertised.
So my conclusion is that low production numbers certainly play a part in the high-dollar bikes,but what about the rest ? In most cases, (at least mine) the Vintage collector starts with the bikes he owned/raced back in the day then moves on to bikes he WISHED he had raced but never did. Then progresses to bikes needed to "round out" a certain collection, lol THEN maybe moves on to bikes that may have the "blue sky" appeal.
Just recently found an 81 KX250 that is probably the cleanest bike I have bought(most being somewhat basket-cases), This one is 95% original and just new spokes and reconditioned tank away from being almost show-room. The guy originally wanted $ 3000, had it on Mark's for almost a year, dropping the price every other month or so. One late Sunday evening the wife and I are watching the tube (in this case her iPad and my laptop) and I see the KX back on Marks and say to her " if this dude ever drops to 1700,im buying it" well as I scroll down I see he has written an exasperated ad and has dropped it to 1400, so I called him and bought it. He was completely shocked that nobody was interested in that bike. The only reason I even grabbed it was that back in 81 when I first met my wife, I was 2 years removed from racing and she surprised me with one 6 months into dating so I would return to racing. And although I never did start racing again until 3 years ago,and the KX wasn't a particularly great bike ,that bike has special meaning to us. So, there are many,many reasons guys buy different models.
Typically I have found that the price range of a decently kept/rider restoration is the 1200-2200 range for just about any Japanese make/model. Probably 2000-3000 for the Euro brands Husky,Maico CZ . Obviously complete/full restorations or specialty builds values are only in the eye of the beholder.
I've also noticed a fairly large difference between West coast and East coast pricing, with the West being much more affordably priced. However, for us here on the East , by the time you pay your transporter the 350-500 to get it home it just about evens out.
So what makes one bike worth more than another ?? Is it because of low production numbers like the 74 YZ360A (632) and 78 Harley MX250( supposedly 1,000) ? Or is it because it was a popular bike in the day that everyone raced at one time or another as in the Red Rockets or 76-78 Rm125's ? Or is it because it was the first of a model or the last of a model like the last air-cooled RM250 Full-floater. Or because it was deemed as one of the best bikes ever built -- 81 Maico 490 ? All of those reasons play a part in someones perception of value.
Speaking of the HD 250mx, that is one I really don't understand. I've seen ones in somewhat below average condition bring 5-7k and nice ones hit the 10k mark. Can't figure out why those are so popular. They weren't very good back in the day and I've run across at least 10-12 for sell or at races ,where as I have NEVER seen a 74 YZ360A for sale or in the flesh anywhere. Although I've heard a nice one would fetch 8-10k,its all conjecture as I've never run across one advertised.
So my conclusion is that low production numbers certainly play a part in the high-dollar bikes,but what about the rest ? In most cases, (at least mine) the Vintage collector starts with the bikes he owned/raced back in the day then moves on to bikes he WISHED he had raced but never did. Then progresses to bikes needed to "round out" a certain collection, lol THEN maybe moves on to bikes that may have the "blue sky" appeal.
Just recently found an 81 KX250 that is probably the cleanest bike I have bought(most being somewhat basket-cases), This one is 95% original and just new spokes and reconditioned tank away from being almost show-room. The guy originally wanted $ 3000, had it on Mark's for almost a year, dropping the price every other month or so. One late Sunday evening the wife and I are watching the tube (in this case her iPad and my laptop) and I see the KX back on Marks and say to her " if this dude ever drops to 1700,im buying it" well as I scroll down I see he has written an exasperated ad and has dropped it to 1400, so I called him and bought it. He was completely shocked that nobody was interested in that bike. The only reason I even grabbed it was that back in 81 when I first met my wife, I was 2 years removed from racing and she surprised me with one 6 months into dating so I would return to racing. And although I never did start racing again until 3 years ago,and the KX wasn't a particularly great bike ,that bike has special meaning to us. So, there are many,many reasons guys buy different models.
Typically I have found that the price range of a decently kept/rider restoration is the 1200-2200 range for just about any Japanese make/model. Probably 2000-3000 for the Euro brands Husky,Maico CZ . Obviously complete/full restorations or specialty builds values are only in the eye of the beholder.
I've also noticed a fairly large difference between West coast and East coast pricing, with the West being much more affordably priced. However, for us here on the East , by the time you pay your transporter the 350-500 to get it home it just about evens out.
I have a line on a 1971 Kawasaki G31M Centurion. It is very original, low hour, and nobody will ever find it. Many NOS parts go with it. I'm thinking $6-8K for all of it is what I am going to ask for it. All or nothing.
What is it worth to YOU?
Price is what a seller is willing to accept and a buyer to pay. If, however, the value in the seller's mind exceeds the value the buyer is willing to pay, all you can really say is that the item has more value to its owner than it's buyer. There are tons of those silent transactions where no one even makes an offer because the price.
To me it's really a question of who wants what and what is the cost of making that available where the buyer is. And given the small number of potential buyers, who has money on a given day. I got over begrudging people I thought were way above market with asking price because VMX really is a niche where some guy may put a real premium over "market" price on what he's willing to pay to get the bike his mom put under the Christmas tree when he was 11. There's no harm in asking.
The Shop
So, is this $6500 Maico, or a $2500 Maico with $4K of Fox stuff?
I think it's a fair price, and almost made me flinch, but it's a $6500 opportunity cost and there are a handful of other bikes Id rather have.
Decided a couple years ago to freshen it up and go have some more fun. Went through the whole bike front to rear. Race Tech fork job and Race Techs our rear. New tires, tubes, chain, sprockets, plastics, paint, cables, a all new custom Stevie Denton transmission, Millenium plated cylinder, crank rebuild and high end crank and tranny bearings. Dumped about 6-7 grand into it and had a auxiliary fuel jug hanging on the bars getting ready to fire it when the house flooded. One year later she finally cranked off . Can’t find the time to tune it or ride it but dammit it is almost ready!
Don’t look too close because it still has old beat up hardware on it, it is after all still a race bike.
What is it worth? Not even going there, I will probably be buried with this one.
All original, matching #'s, full PC race bike from that era. Boost bottle, drilled fork damping rods, Rick Ash pipe, bead blasted cases, etc... The fork sliders are white because at the end of 82 (the bike was sitting in the corner of the shop gather dust) Mike Guerra (then Anaheim Husky shop mechanic, now runs Yamaha amateur support) knew the 83 bikes would be white. He wanted to see what the white sliders would looked like. So when he replaced the leaky seals one day, he painted them white. The bike was originally for Tommy Croft to ride at Anaheim. He broke his leg a few weeks before the race and the bike was sitting there. Then I started getting a bit of support from PC and the bike became mine. Been in my hands ever since (except when it sat in the corner at PC during the 82 season gathering dust)
I saw Payton at the Vet Nationals a few weeks back and a bunch of us were laughing about old times back then. Great fun...
So who can decide the value of what things are worth? Depends how bad the buyer wants it I feel and what they are willing to pay for it. Everything is for sale for the right price.
Current:
Back in the day:
Pit Row
Seat, number plates , engine mounts, skid plate, side stand, steering stop , all had to be hand fabbed. Had to order the engine rebuild parts from Germany. It's not perfect, but as close as I could get to the way it was. Don't want to add the receipts up. It does not matter, as it is for me and not for sale.
This one is not mine. It is just a pic to show an original one, un-restored.
Take the time, find one, strip it, touch every part, spend stupid amounts of money and time, then ask the question.
I could rant all day!
....No way, these are worth $5000 restored!
How easy is a given bike to restore and how much $$$? If the parts are very hard to come by, or have to be handmade, that could affect the value.
How odd or unique is the bike? For example, If money was no object and one of these became available, I'd pretty much pay whatever is asked for the Honda RC125 twin w/Ribi front end, or the Gilera 125 twin w/rotary valves from the same era.
What is the emotional impact on the buyer or seller? That plays a big role.
How many are on the market and how many serious buyers at a given time?
Just a few thoughts.
Sold my last Maico years ago regret it every day. Things you do when you need a few Quid . Would love to have it back , always wondered what happened to it and how the price now would be Lekker if I held off. Should of could of Hey!
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