Good to see 4 Zukes in the 450 Main.

mb60
Posts
5078
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Location
GRAPEVINE, TX US
Edited Date/Time 2/19/2020 3:34am
Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.
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1
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motomike894
Posts
1519
Joined
9/6/2009
Location
Waterloo, IN US
2/16/2020 12:25pm
I’m hoping I’ll need a new one for 21 and I love my suzuki now, but if they don’t change a single thing I might have to switch
Ted722
Posts
4490
Joined
9/21/2011
Location
Sacramento, CA US
2/16/2020 12:31pm
That's the same amount of kickstart bikes that made the 250 Main.
1
1
2/16/2020 12:40pm
I’d love to see Suzuki have a little resurgence of the Moto scene... and corporately as well a resurgence. Never rode them but it’s good for the sport.
7
Motofinne
Posts
10951
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
2/16/2020 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2020 12:43pm
Privateers? HEP is one of the best non factory supported teams in the paddock. They have a GP winner on their payroll.
4

The Shop

2/16/2020 12:56pm
mb60 wrote:
Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


14
15
mxbrian15
Posts
539
Joined
12/8/2015
Location
Orlando, FL US
2/16/2020 1:02pm
mb60 wrote:
Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't...
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...
5
4
2/16/2020 1:08pm
mb60 wrote:
Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't...
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


mxbrian15 wrote:
Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
1
5
BobPA
Posts
8106
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
2/16/2020 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2020 1:36pm
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't...
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


mxbrian15 wrote:
Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
6
4
loftyair
Posts
2802
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
2/16/2020 1:41pm
Liquid-radiator-cooled suspension coming soon!
mb60
Posts
5078
Joined
3/7/2010
Location
GRAPEVINE, TX US
2/16/2020 1:52pm
BobPA wrote:
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent...
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
3
2/16/2020 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2020 2:01pm
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't...
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


mxbrian15 wrote:
Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
E start has been the biggest competitive tech advantage any mxer has had in recent years.
2
2/16/2020 6:28pm
mxbrian15 wrote:
Literally all advancements in dirt bikes have brought advantages. By this logic, the bikes should all be steel framed, twin shocks, and non-inverted forks...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
BobPA wrote:
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent...
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


4
2
xrmark
Posts
1123
Joined
9/9/2019
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA US
2/16/2020 6:36pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
2
malachi177
Posts
2281
Joined
12/18/2010
Location
B.C., BC CA
2/16/2020 6:53pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.
6
1
Meister
Posts
2807
Joined
3/21/2013
Location
Canton, OH US
2/16/2020 7:02pm
What I think BDB is say is that a kick started is like a lifted truck with huge wheels and tiny looking tires.

I searched out the 17 crf I bought because I wanted the kicker. If the battery dies (my leg), I can't ride anyway.

This is after owning a 16 ktm. I like living on the risky side knowing that if I fall over I have to kick it.. oh wait... I do have a recluse... Lol
2/16/2020 7:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2020 7:27pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
I'll just drop this GIF of Kyle Peters hopelessly kicking a newer 250, giving up four positions, while in the same time Cameron Mcadoo stands up, rights his bike and roosts away. And I guarantee you, Peters kicks that thing better than I would all gassed out from picking the bike up -- especially on a 450.

2
7
Mossy
Posts
438
Joined
7/6/2018
Location
Newport News, VA US
2/16/2020 7:35pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
malachi177 wrote:
My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.
Agreed. It's very easy to kickstart for me as well.
mb60
Posts
5078
Joined
3/7/2010
Location
GRAPEVINE, TX US
2/16/2020 8:15pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
2017 KX 450 and when you have short legs they are a bitch to restart.
BobPA
Posts
8106
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
2/16/2020 9:13pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2020 9:23pm
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
BobPA wrote:
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent...
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion...
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


I can maybe see your point of view? But it is pretty "asinine". By your argument everyone should run flimsy steel bars and cast aluminum levers. This way if you crash and fold them like spaghetti, the penalty will be severe.....Damn you Twinwalls and forged levers....That is how silly your argument sounds.....And yes! A front brake will stop working after a tip over.....Poor argument choice there BTW.

Crashes in MX happen, it is 100% part of the sport, and will never go away. Every single rider will crash during the season. Mistakes will also happen....Especially now coming into the east coast.....Do not care how good the pros are.

I'll agree to disagree, I guess. No one is changing anyone's opinions....You're argument is so silly, it is making me take a few day break from Vital...Cannot afford to lose anymore brain cells.

2
2
Ryan625
Posts
1675
Joined
9/14/2019
Location
Lynnwood, WA US
2/16/2020 9:41pm
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
malachi177 wrote:
My ‘19 RMZ450 is the easiest bike to kickstart that I’ve owned. Cold, hot....one kick and it starts. All the time.
Mossy wrote:
Agreed. It's very easy to kickstart for me as well.
Have you ever tried to start a bike that is heavily modified? Sometimes they just don't like to start when hot. I had a very built crf250 that started first kick every time, same bike, same build a year later and it never wanted to start hot so we ran the idle at about 2,000 RPM.
mxbrian15
Posts
539
Joined
12/8/2015
Location
Orlando, FL US
2/18/2020 6:20pm
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years...
Wrong, wrong, wrong. But I don't want to waste my time explaining why your logic is wrong. Nothing wrong with advancements in bikes over the years, but an E start is a completely different beast we are talking about.
BobPA wrote:
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent...
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion...
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.
2
2/18/2020 7:50pm
BobPA wrote:
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent...
I agree with Brian. But I would love to hear your argument. When bikes went to hydraulic disc brakes...lap times dropped because of better more consistent braking. When bikes went to mono shocks...lap times dropped because of better, more consistent suspension. Etc. Etc. When bikes went to electric start, lap times dropped after the inevitable crash or stall. It is all in the evolution of the sport. You must not actually race if you do not appreciate e-start.

No one's opinion is wrong...It is an opinion. Just because you disagree does not make it wrong...No one died and made you an MX God like you think.

Hand cranks have been obsolete on cars for 100 years, carburetors are 30 years gone....I think our sport is just starting to catch up to the modern times.
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion...
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your...
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.
Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.
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2/18/2020 7:59pm
mb60 wrote:
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked...
I guess he thinks everyone is young that rides 450 bikes. The older guys including myself just need that e start to keep from getting smoked kicking that beast.
xrmark wrote:
What year bike are you riding?? Newer 250s and 450s really aren’t that hard to kick at all...
I'll just drop this GIF of Kyle Peters hopelessly kicking a newer 250, giving up four positions, while in the same time Cameron Mcadoo stands up...
I'll just drop this GIF of Kyle Peters hopelessly kicking a newer 250, giving up four positions, while in the same time Cameron Mcadoo stands up, rights his bike and roosts away. And I guarantee you, Peters kicks that thing better than I would all gassed out from picking the bike up -- especially on a 450.

How about Justin cooper a few rounds ago??
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Adam43
Posts
3203
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
2/18/2020 8:16pm
mb60 wrote:
Hopefully they will make some changes and add the E button for 2021.
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't...
I know this is a very very very unpopular view, but I don't believe electric starters should be allowed in professional SX or MX. It hasn't been a part of the sport since the beginning of racing until recently. Riders have never been rewarded with an easy start button after a crash or stall until now.

An E button is an insurance policy for crashing or stalling your bike. These are the best riders in the world and they should not be rewarded for making a mistake (an E button when they crash). They should have to start their bikes the old fashioned way like every former champion. Fitness also plays into this. We all know it's not easy to kick start a hot bike in a race.

Those who get to the finish line first with the least amount of crashes (mistakes) should win. E starts took away the negative consequences of crashing or stalling. I'm sure there were championships lost from crashes that resulted in the bike not being able to be restarted quick enough. Times have changed.

E starts and hole shot devices should go away. Why make it easier on them as they are the best in the world? Let's see some wheelies off the gate, not this low rider hole shot device shit.

500 downvotes? Smile


I don't the electric start is a bridge too far, but I agree with you in general.

It falls into the category of nice, but unnecessary.

Motocross bikes are supposed to be inexpensive, spartan pieces of machinery.

Continually adding expense moves us closer to something like road racing - which is now basically DOA as an amateur sport.
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Francis377
Posts
444
Joined
6/13/2009
Location
Marseilles, MA US
2/19/2020 12:33am Edited Date/Time 2/19/2020 12:34am
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion...
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your...
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.
Brian, If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to...
Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.
He will be fine. Some of us think your argument is shit too. It must be hard for a mastermind like yourself to deal with all the commoners on vital.
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3
mxbrian15
Posts
539
Joined
12/8/2015
Location
Orlando, FL US
2/19/2020 3:34am
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion...
According to google, the first electric start motorcycle was built in 1914. We've never had them in pro SX or MX until recently. Every single champion until modern "easy buttons" were introduced were faced with the consequences of crashing and stalling their bike. Every single previous champion also had to get their bike restarted after a crash by expending a ton of energy, which sometimes failed completely with a bike that wouldn't restart. Until the "easy button", it wasn't "easy" to get back in the race...now it is.

Comparing this to an evolution of a shock or brake is asinine. Does a shock or brake stop working when the bike is tipped over? And does that shock or brake require the rider to expend a ton of energy to maybe get it working again to maybe re-enter the race for points? Absolutely not. Staying on two wheels should be rewarded like it used to be and crashing should have consequences, just like MotoGP. How different the MotoGP championship landscape would be if MotoGP guys could just pickup their bike and push an easy button to get going again.

If one cannot understand how an easy button completely minimizes the consequences of making mistakes and changes the whole landscape of race wins and championships then you have some soul searching to do. Just realize why you love them on your bike so much, because e start buttons make it easy...I'm all for e starts outside of professional racing.

I do not like seeing a rider sit on the track and kick his bike for 45 seconds while he gets lapped and loses valuable points or even a championship...but guess what, he wouldn't be there if he had not made a mistake and this is how it's always been to separated the champions from the field, until now...

Roczen could have had his championship hopes lost last night by his little tip over if this happened a few years ago. He could have been a lap down while trying to start his bike. But in today's new world he's up instantly and gets back to 3rd place. Absolutely no consequence for making a mistake. This coming from a Roczen fan.

I appreciate racing, especially the number one challenge of staying on two wheels while going fast. Therefore I do not appreciate an easy button in professional SX/MX.

Moments like this with ICE are nearly gone forever until electric bikes take over (unless you ride a RMZ or KX250 Smile ) Imagine that, champions used to have to get their bikes started to enter or re-enter the race. Friggin legend right here:

But like you said Bob, it's just my opinion


mxbrian15 wrote:
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your...
A disc brake reduces your chances of a bigger mistake than a drum brake. So when some bikes had discs and others had old drums, your logic would say that is unfair because you can brake quicker from a mistake where racers with drums would’ve crashed or gone off track. They shouldn’t get that advantage because they made a mistake, right?

Also, while there is an advantage to an e start, that is only if it functions properly. If the starter or battery fails, that racer now has to bump start his bike! You don’t have that problem with a kick start.
Brian, If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to...
Brian,

If you really can't understand the concept and implications of the easy button completely changing the landscape and you're still trying to compare it to disk/drum brake technology after my explanation above, then I'm really sorry. I feel for you.
Lol! Please don’t waste your time feeling sorry for me. We disagree on a petty topic of opinion. I won’t lose any sleep.
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Post a reply to: Good to see 4 Zukes in the 450 Main.

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