The Holeshot device...

Big Lenny
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Big Lenny
Edited Date/Time 2/8/2014 6:17am
Has the holeshot device killed the art of being a great starter?...
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Beast666
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Beast666 2/6/2014 6:26pm
2/6/2014 6:26pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Has the holeshot device killed the art of being a great starter?...
IMHO not at all. as nearly everyone has one on there bike all it does is help to put more weight on the front wheel at the start. You still have to be able to time the gates drop perfectly and keep wheel spin to a minimum.
Crush
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Crush 2/6/2014 6:30pm
2/6/2014 6:30pm
I totally think it has, and more to the point, if everyone has them, why not ban them, reintroduce some technique and unpredictability into it, and slow the fuckin things down going into the first turn.
mx_563
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mx_563 2/6/2014 6:59pm
2/6/2014 6:59pm
If everyone has them, technique still differentiates the riders and unpredictability remains. You can still screw up a start with the device.

On top of that it pumps a few ducats into the industry so guys like Hammerhead and WC can keep on keeping on.

I don't see a problem.

The Shop

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norcal3737
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norcal3737 2/6/2014 7:06pm
2/6/2014 7:06pm
Crush wrote:
I totally think it has, and more to the point, if everyone has them, why not ban them, reintroduce some technique and unpredictability into it, and...
I totally think it has, and more to the point, if everyone has them, why not ban them, reintroduce some technique and unpredictability into it, and slow the fuckin things down going into the first turn.
and slow the fuckin things down going into the first turn.

Great reasoning.
Crush
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Crush 2/6/2014 7:06pm
2/6/2014 7:06pm
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on 4 strokes.

By the very fact that you've eliminated half the problems that occur starting normally you've erased some

In the old days, starting a 2 stroke was an art and the good guys had an advantage.

Now it's just pin it, whoever gets traction that's it.
bns99121
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bns99121 2/6/2014 7:17pm
2/6/2014 7:17pm
Does anyone have any actual data on the average speeds at say 50, 100, 200ft etc... with and without a holeshot device? I would imagine the speeds are closer than you would think.
Crush
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Crush 2/6/2014 7:35pm
2/6/2014 7:35pm
It'll make comparatively more difference on the shorter ones obviously...

But the thing is, with making it harder to have a good start, the field is going to narrow a little more heading into the first turn.
Big Lenny
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Big Lenny 2/6/2014 8:24pm
2/6/2014 8:24pm
IMO the holeshot is a thing of beauty when nailed perfectly....
IceMan446
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IceMan446 2/6/2014 9:05pm
2/6/2014 9:05pm
wait until MB1s rear holeshot device starts to be used by more and more riders.
Grizz
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Grizz 2/6/2014 9:06pm
2/6/2014 9:06pm
I love it.
Renner153
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Renner153 2/6/2014 9:14pm
2/6/2014 9:14pm
Crush wrote:
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on...
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on 4 strokes.

By the very fact that you've eliminated half the problems that occur starting normally you've erased some

In the old days, starting a 2 stroke was an art and the good guys had an advantage.

Now it's just pin it, whoever gets traction that's it.
Lmao. You really can't be THAT dumb can you? Have you ever done a start in your life? With a holeshot device, without? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? Last year I had a KTM 250 sx and a CRF 250 both had a holeshot device at times and sometimes without. I could start exactly the same with or without on either bike. And either bike with or without a holeshot you can still wheelie, still have to have clutch control, body positioning, throttle control etc. you still get wheel spin. It's just a little added weight to the front. And since everyone runs them now, it would be no different than no one running them. It's not all pin it and dump clutch like you seem to think...
shredder23 2/6/2014 9:15pm
2/6/2014 9:15pm
i don't even have one, nor do i use the launch mode on my kxf
Grizz
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Grizz 2/6/2014 9:16pm
2/6/2014 9:16pm
shredder23 wrote:
i don't even have one, nor do i use the launch mode on my kxf
The launch mode is only good if you enjoy getting roosted. Get a holeshot device Wink
Crush
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Crush 2/6/2014 9:32pm
2/6/2014 9:32pm
Renner153 wrote:
Lmao. You really can't be THAT dumb can you? Have you ever done a start in your life? With a holeshot device, without? 2 stroke or...
Lmao. You really can't be THAT dumb can you? Have you ever done a start in your life? With a holeshot device, without? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? Last year I had a KTM 250 sx and a CRF 250 both had a holeshot device at times and sometimes without. I could start exactly the same with or without on either bike. And either bike with or without a holeshot you can still wheelie, still have to have clutch control, body positioning, throttle control etc. you still get wheel spin. It's just a little added weight to the front. And since everyone runs them now, it would be no different than no one running them. It's not all pin it and dump clutch like you seem to think...
Way to go guy. I've done plenty of starts, in fact, I was excellent at it... Holeshotted loads of races at my club.

And it's not like I'm not the only one with the opinion... DV and Ping have said the same multiple times. Sure they're are still elements of throttle or clutch control in it but it's now where near what it was... And again, if everyone has it, what's the point?

The fact that everyone uses them clearly means it is faster and/or easier/more consistent to use it. You might be able to start just as well as you say, but bet you it's harder.

The device is an advantage – obviously, everyone uses them... Therefore it DEFINITELY makes it easier, and cuts the likelihood of you making mistakes way down, so mathematically that cuts down the chances of things going wrong and causing a bad start.

There's just no point.
MJC
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MJC 2/6/2014 9:49pm
2/6/2014 9:49pm
Exactly Crush, they're not on everyone's bikes just for shits and giggles......
Getting rid of them might help separate riders at the first turn and the ensuing carnage at the first obstacle/triple.
I said might.....
enketchum
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enketchum 2/6/2014 10:00pm
2/6/2014 10:00pm
If it is something they are doing over and over, it isn't art. It is craft or skill
sumdood
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sumdood 2/6/2014 10:22pm
2/6/2014 10:22pm
Big Lenny wrote:
IMO the holeshot is a thing of beauty when nailed perfectly....
Yes it is. Heres one of my favorite holeshot pics

Pit Row

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TripleFive 2/6/2014 10:52pm
2/6/2014 10:52pm
With a holeshot device all the riders have to do is just sit down an twist the throttle, it takes no skill at all.
rebus
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rebus 2/6/2014 11:13pm
2/6/2014 11:13pm Edited Date/Time 2/6/2014 11:14pm
TripleFive wrote:
With a holeshot device all the riders have to do is just sit down an twist the throttle, it takes no skill at all.
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Same with good suspension. All the rides have to do is jump...no talent at all.
racin mason
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racin mason 2/6/2014 11:25pm
2/6/2014 11:25pm
Big Lenny wrote:
Has the holeshot device killed the art of being a great starter?...
Out of all the guys on the line the holeshot device only works for one person, and thats the guy with the best technique.
StartedTooLate 2/7/2014 1:22am
2/7/2014 1:22am
HSD make things more forgiving. A guy with poor technique used to get completely dropped...and now he just loses 2 bike lengths. If they got rid of them...the best starters will still be the best starters..and the poor starters will still be the poor starters. But the difference between them will be much greater. This has pluses and minuses.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 2/7/2014 3:08am
2/7/2014 3:08am
Never used one. I'm always 5-10th to the first corner. Fast out the gate for the first 10m though. Road racing I was shit hot at starting...crap for the rest though!

Ban them so I can have a chance at holeshotting. Cheaper than me coughing up for one
downard254
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downard254 2/7/2014 4:52am
2/7/2014 4:52am Edited Date/Time 2/7/2014 4:53am
I remember seeing a video of a test on the holeshot device. Can't remember where I saw it, may have to search youtube to see if I can find it, but they essentially ran many simulated starts both with the device and without, and timed the starts from the drop of the gate to a point 20 or 50 feet out. The average advantage at the measured distance was something like 2/10ths of a second. Don't quote me on that, but it was a consistant measured advantage almost every time. Well worth having one if nobody else is using it, and mandatory if everyone else was using it.
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Katoomey 2/7/2014 6:17am
2/7/2014 6:17am
Crush wrote:
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on...
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on 4 strokes.

By the very fact that you've eliminated half the problems that occur starting normally you've erased some

In the old days, starting a 2 stroke was an art and the good guys had an advantage.

Now it's just pin it, whoever gets traction that's it.
Dont we want to make the racing closer? Why would you want to separate the good from the bad even more in a sport where usually one or two guys dominate.

The more likely it is that "anyone" can holeshot, the better the racing. If you don't understand why that is both more entertaining and important to the sport, then you sir, "just don't get it."

It sounds like you just want 2 or 3 guys to run away with it every race. You'd probably be happy if whoever your a fanboy of just won every race and lead every lap.

Do you even like good racing, or do you just like worshiping heroes? If thats the case, you should be reading comic books instead of watching motorsports.
pitbike502
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pitbike502 2/7/2014 6:43am
2/7/2014 6:43am
IceMan446 wrote:
wait until MB1s rear holeshot device starts to be used by more and more riders.
what is it? haven't heard of it
fanger
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fanger 2/7/2014 7:20am
2/7/2014 7:20am
Big Lenny wrote:
Has the holeshot device killed the art of being a great starter?...
racin mason wrote:
Out of all the guys on the line the holeshot device only works for one person, and thats the guy with the best technique.
Yes, or the guy with who gets the holeshot.
fanger
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fanger 2/7/2014 7:25am
2/7/2014 7:25am
Crush wrote:
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on...
Yeah the technique is pretty much matt it as much as you can without getting wheelspin. Wheelies or feathering the clutch aren't an issue, especially on 4 strokes.

By the very fact that you've eliminated half the problems that occur starting normally you've erased some

In the old days, starting a 2 stroke was an art and the good guys had an advantage.

Now it's just pin it, whoever gets traction that's it.
Katoomey wrote:
Dont we want to make the racing closer? Why would you want to separate the good from the bad even more in a sport where usually...
Dont we want to make the racing closer? Why would you want to separate the good from the bad even more in a sport where usually one or two guys dominate.

The more likely it is that "anyone" can holeshot, the better the racing. If you don't understand why that is both more entertaining and important to the sport, then you sir, "just don't get it."

It sounds like you just want 2 or 3 guys to run away with it every race. You'd probably be happy if whoever your a fanboy of just won every race and lead every lap.

Do you even like good racing, or do you just like worshiping heroes? If thats the case, you should be reading comic books instead of watching motorsports.
Good post for the first two paragraphs, last all depth after that though.

But your first paragraph sums it up perfectly, the closer the starts are the better.
Kevin Reynolds 2/7/2014 11:49am
2/7/2014 11:49am
BAN THEM! Along with fuel injection, upside down forks with all their clickers, single rear shocks with their clickers too, oh and all that linkage too. Water cooled engines need to go too! But what do I know this is my first post...

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