Suzuki decline

280driver
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VA US
7/13/2019 6:10am
That was three years ago. The other bikes are better, and the proof is in the pudding when you look at the results of the top...
That was three years ago. The other bikes are better, and the proof is in the pudding when you look at the results of the top pros.
WRONG!
If Eli & Kenny signed a Suzuki contract they’d be on the podium. It’s not about the bike.
BobPA wrote:
How can you possibly prove that?
I️ agree with this. A great rider on a good race prepped bike of any brand is going to do well. This does not correlate with the bikes on the showroom floor or the health of the company. No doubt that Suzuki has not put the kind of money they used to into our sport and into the R&D of their bikes. They are on the decline for sure. I️ hope this changes.
2
7/13/2019 7:16am
That was three years ago. The other bikes are better, and the proof is in the pudding when you look at the results of the top...
That was three years ago. The other bikes are better, and the proof is in the pudding when you look at the results of the top pros.
WRONG!
If Eli & Kenny signed a Suzuki contract they’d be on the podium. It’s not about the bike.
You don't know that. The bikes have improved over the last three years, while the Suzuki hasn't. The bike matters.
1
4
7/13/2019 7:19am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 7:22am
WRONG!
If Eli & Kenny signed a Suzuki contract they’d be on the podium. It’s not about the bike.
BobPA wrote:
How can you possibly prove that?
Racer111 wrote:
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in...
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in the 450 class. Dungey signs with them and we know how that turned out. Reed is only a couple years younger than Jesus and he made it on the podium and ran up front last year. So, if you put Tomac, Musquin, Roczen etc. on today’s Suzuki, they are still going to running where they are now. How many hole shots did last years Suzuki get??




Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011 outdoor series? Bikes matter.
1
1
Racer111
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7/13/2019 7:45am
BobPA wrote:
How can you possibly prove that?
Racer111 wrote:
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in...
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in the 450 class. Dungey signs with them and we know how that turned out. Reed is only a couple years younger than Jesus and he made it on the podium and ran up front last year. So, if you put Tomac, Musquin, Roczen etc. on today’s Suzuki, they are still going to running where they are now. How many hole shots did last years Suzuki get??




Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011...
Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011 outdoor series? Bikes matter.
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on one of them and you’d see plenty of checkers. Talent matters! Now after you’ve been watching the sport for more than 3 years, you’ll get that.

I’d put 40th place rider in the Nationals right now on a bone stock Suzuki against the best rider at your local track on any brand you choose with as many mods he can put on the bike and he still would get lapped. That’s a fact!
3

The Shop

BobPA
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PA US
7/13/2019 7:52am
Racer111 wrote:
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in...
History, son!!! Suzuki hadn’t won anything in 20 years. RC signs with them and started reading off titles. KTM had never even won a race in the 450 class. Dungey signs with them and we know how that turned out. Reed is only a couple years younger than Jesus and he made it on the podium and ran up front last year. So, if you put Tomac, Musquin, Roczen etc. on today’s Suzuki, they are still going to running where they are now. How many hole shots did last years Suzuki get??




Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011...
Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011 outdoor series? Bikes matter.
Racer111 wrote:
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on...
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on one of them and you’d see plenty of checkers. Talent matters! Now after you’ve been watching the sport for more than 3 years, you’ll get that.

I’d put 40th place rider in the Nationals right now on a bone stock Suzuki against the best rider at your local track on any brand you choose with as many mods he can put on the bike and he still would get lapped. That’s a fact!
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
4
1
austin_bo
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7/13/2019 8:17am
Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011...
Holeshots? Lol, how about the checkers? Since we are talking about bikes, how about RV when he switched to the 2012 half way into the 2011 outdoor series? Bikes matter.
Racer111 wrote:
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on...
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on one of them and you’d see plenty of checkers. Talent matters! Now after you’ve been watching the sport for more than 3 years, you’ll get that.

I’d put 40th place rider in the Nationals right now on a bone stock Suzuki against the best rider at your local track on any brand you choose with as many mods he can put on the bike and he still would get lapped. That’s a fact!
BobPA wrote:
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique...
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111
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Concord, NC US
7/13/2019 8:23am
Racer111 wrote:
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on...
The biggest complaint I see here is “down on power!” If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any holeshots. Now, put Eli or Musquin on one of them and you’d see plenty of checkers. Talent matters! Now after you’ve been watching the sport for more than 3 years, you’ll get that.

I’d put 40th place rider in the Nationals right now on a bone stock Suzuki against the best rider at your local track on any brand you choose with as many mods he can put on the bike and he still would get lapped. That’s a fact!
BobPA wrote:
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique...
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


13
1
colvin227
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7/13/2019 8:26am
BobPA wrote:
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique...
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


OMG how is that even possible
On that horrible POS BFRC shock.......? Sarcasm inserted.
mxb2
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7/13/2019 8:32am
BobPA wrote:
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique...
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


Nice bikes, you like the rmz the best between all 3? Pros cons of each?
1
1
7/13/2019 8:50am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 8:53am
BobPA wrote:
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique...
Holeshots are as much technique as they are horsepower. How else did RV holeshot the MXdN on a small bore? A fast bike helps poor technique, but there are numerous factors for holeshots.

Again, there is no way for you to prove that any rider would do as well on a Zook compared to their current ride. It is just not possible to know. Bikes matter, look at Webb on KTM vs Yamaha. It is not as big of a factor for some riders and others it plays a huge role.

I think the 450 Zook is plenty capable in the hands of any pro. I believe the 250 is at a slight disadvantage.
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
2
austin_bo
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Medford, NJ US
7/13/2019 9:08am
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
He took 10th the following week, which is better than the majority of his results in the last several years. Roczen, Tomac, Carmichael, Reed, Stewart, and a bunch of other top riders in history have all traversed the rainbow of colors and have been successful, if not champions, on each machine. But as someone else said, factory bikes are so worked that it doesn't make much sense for us consumers to compare.

To the point of this thread, I will reiterate what I commented previously. If Suzuki could lock down a top marketable guy, shave a little weight, add an electric start, and keep pricing competitive to where it is now, I truly believe we would see more yellow at our local tracks.
2
UGOTBIT
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7/13/2019 9:08am
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
I think the problem is the other sides case is only proven by what the bike hasn’t done, not what it is capable of.

If anything we do know it’s both man and machine at work, both need to work to be on top of the box.

Someone earlier mentioned Webb, but that’s not a clear cut case of bike issues because he changed his entire program.
1
BobPA
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7/13/2019 9:09am
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Have you ever heard of anecdotal evidence? A-Mart hasn't looks this bad/inconsistent in years....isn't that proof? See how it works?

@Racer111 I guess I am an idiot because I have a differing opinion....Way to show your 12 year old mentality. You cannot prove your theory, so you name call and post your own personal opinions as fact....you really showed the internet bro.
5
Racer111
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7/13/2019 9:43am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 9:44am
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
Not having electric start doesn’t make it behind the others. It just means you can’t be a lazy ass millennial that wants everything done for you. My yellow bike kicks over 1st to second kick every time. Having JUST an electric start pussifies a bike in my opinion.

And the shootouts are for what the bikes are like delivered to the showroom. Watch the Racer X garage build Pingree does on the 2018 and 2019 RMZ450. Just add a piston and exhaust and it has MORE horsepower than you can handle. That’s 1,000.00 and I paid 5899.00 for my brand new 2018 last year. So I’m roughly 7,000.00 in for a brand new 450 that will run with anything and turns better than the other 5 brands. So, yeah. I called you an idiot. What you’re stating isn’t an opinion, it’s straight up false.
https://youtu.be/AsF9djnHeYs
3
Racer111
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7/13/2019 9:49am
austin_bo wrote:
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming...
Didn't Freddie just post his best results on a yellow bike coming from a Honda? And at Southwick of all places - a treacherous, horsepower consuming track. Isn't this proof?
BobPA wrote:
Have you ever heard of anecdotal evidence? A-Mart hasn't looks this bad/inconsistent in years....isn't that proof? See how it works? @Racer111 I guess I am an...
Have you ever heard of anecdotal evidence? A-Mart hasn't looks this bad/inconsistent in years....isn't that proof? See how it works?

@Racer111 I guess I am an idiot because I have a differing opinion....Way to show your 12 year old mentality. You cannot prove your theory, so you name call and post your own personal opinions as fact....you really showed the internet bro.
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC won 4 straight titles on the Suzuki. Again, Dungey literally made KTM’s cool and how many titles??

If Tomac was on a Suzuki, he’d still be winning the 450 Nationals right now. At this level, it’s 70% talent, 15% mental and 15% bike. Look at Chad, look at James, look at Ferry, look at MC. It didn’t matter what brand they were on. They still owned the track.
1
austin_bo
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Medford, NJ US
7/13/2019 9:52am
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
Racer111 wrote:
Not having electric start doesn’t make it behind the others. It just means you can’t be a lazy ass millennial that wants everything done for you...
Not having electric start doesn’t make it behind the others. It just means you can’t be a lazy ass millennial that wants everything done for you. My yellow bike kicks over 1st to second kick every time. Having JUST an electric start pussifies a bike in my opinion.

And the shootouts are for what the bikes are like delivered to the showroom. Watch the Racer X garage build Pingree does on the 2018 and 2019 RMZ450. Just add a piston and exhaust and it has MORE horsepower than you can handle. That’s 1,000.00 and I paid 5899.00 for my brand new 2018 last year. So I’m roughly 7,000.00 in for a brand new 450 that will run with anything and turns better than the other 5 brands. So, yeah. I called you an idiot. What you’re stating isn’t an opinion, it’s straight up false.
https://youtu.be/AsF9djnHeYs
I'm not knocking an old traditional kick starter. My 2018 KTM isn't starting right now and I know it's an electrical issue... wouldn't be an issue if I also had a kickstarter.

However, millennials are the target demographic (anyone born between 1981 and 1996 (ages 23 to 38 in 2019)). So if we're as lazy as you say we are, they might want to appeal to us by adding an estart like the rest of the pack.
1
BobPA
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7/13/2019 10:00am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 10:03am
Racer111 wrote:
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC...
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC won 4 straight titles on the Suzuki. Again, Dungey literally made KTM’s cool and how many titles??

If Tomac was on a Suzuki, he’d still be winning the 450 Nationals right now. At this level, it’s 70% talent, 15% mental and 15% bike. Look at Chad, look at James, look at Ferry, look at MC. It didn’t matter what brand they were on. They still owned the track.
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient tech, you see those two bros kicking for their life during the SX season....everyone else hit the button and rolled away.

Your OPINION is that Suzuki’s turn better than the other brands. It is not a fact. In my OPINION the Honda’s KTM/Husky’s turn better than the yellow bikes. Have not ridden a new Kawasaki yet.

Maybe your mind will realize that your opinions are not facts. But I am beginning to realize that your IQ is below average for this site...which puts you wayyyyy down the list compared to normal people.
4
Racer111
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7/13/2019 10:05am
Racer111 wrote:
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC...
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC won 4 straight titles on the Suzuki. Again, Dungey literally made KTM’s cool and how many titles??

If Tomac was on a Suzuki, he’d still be winning the 450 Nationals right now. At this level, it’s 70% talent, 15% mental and 15% bike. Look at Chad, look at James, look at Ferry, look at MC. It didn’t matter what brand they were on. They still owned the track.
BobPA wrote:
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient...
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient tech, you see those two bros kicking for their life during the SX season....everyone else hit the button and rolled away.

Your OPINION is that Suzuki’s turn better than the other brands. It is not a fact. In my OPINION the Honda’s KTM/Husky’s turn better than the yellow bikes. Have not ridden a new Kawasaki yet.

Maybe your mind will realize that your opinions are not facts. But I am beginning to realize that your IQ is below average for this site...which puts you wayyyyy down the list compared to normal people.
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it didn’t turn for shit and has horrible headshake. I’m not bolting on a steering stabilizer. Even in the shoot outs you brought up they all said it’s the best turning bike.
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7/13/2019 10:46am
Racer111 wrote:
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha...
You can’t tell idiots anything. It’s like barking up a tree. The yellow bike turns so well and brakes so well it would eat a Yamaha and Honda alive. I know. I have a 2018 RMZ 450 and a 2019 KTM 450. Every track I’ve been to I am faster on the RMZ. I also had a Works Edition Honda. Lap times are still better on the Suzuki. Ergonomics and turning ability on the Suzuki are 2nd to no one. Here are all 3 of the bikes because I know someone will try and say bullshit.


And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
Racer111 wrote:
Not having electric start doesn’t make it behind the others. It just means you can’t be a lazy ass millennial that wants everything done for you...
Not having electric start doesn’t make it behind the others. It just means you can’t be a lazy ass millennial that wants everything done for you. My yellow bike kicks over 1st to second kick every time. Having JUST an electric start pussifies a bike in my opinion.

And the shootouts are for what the bikes are like delivered to the showroom. Watch the Racer X garage build Pingree does on the 2018 and 2019 RMZ450. Just add a piston and exhaust and it has MORE horsepower than you can handle. That’s 1,000.00 and I paid 5899.00 for my brand new 2018 last year. So I’m roughly 7,000.00 in for a brand new 450 that will run with anything and turns better than the other 5 brands. So, yeah. I called you an idiot. What you’re stating isn’t an opinion, it’s straight up false.
https://youtu.be/AsF9djnHeYs
What I'm stating isn't false, the bike lost every major shootout, and your evidence is (at best) anecdotal. Once again, no one is saying the bike is bad, it's just not as good as the others. Bikes matter, just ask McGrath about his switch to KTM, or RV when he switched to a 2012 model after Washougal in 2011. He flat out said the bike was better. How many top pros are lining up on the Suzuki in 2019? Remember when Deano was trying out different bikes and was going to privateer it? He didn't try out the Suzuki.
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7/13/2019 10:54am
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major...
And that's what boils down to for some of you; people with different opinions you call idiots. Even though the bike got last in every major shootout, even though Noren didn't do as good the following week, your case is proved by one race at Southwick, some holeshots, and your personal anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad bike, they are saying its behind the others, and that at the top level of racing that matters.
Reading in to it, I think plenty here are saying its a bad bike..
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7/13/2019 10:58am
What I'm stating isn't false, the bike lost every major shootout, and your evidence is (at best) anecdotal. Once again, no one is saying the bike...
What I'm stating isn't false, the bike lost every major shootout, and your evidence is (at best) anecdotal. Once again, no one is saying the bike is bad, it's just not as good as the others. Bikes matter, just ask McGrath about his switch to KTM, or RV when he switched to a 2012 model after Washougal in 2011. He flat out said the bike was better. How many top pros are lining up on the Suzuki in 2019? Remember when Deano was trying out different bikes and was going to privateer it? He didn't try out the Suzuki.
Why bother comparing the bikes ridden in a magazine test, to that of which is ridden at a pro level? Chad Reeds's bike is nowhere near the level of what would've been ridden in the magazine tests.. (as would KR's Honda)


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7/13/2019 11:01am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 11:08am
What I'm stating isn't false, the bike lost every major shootout, and your evidence is (at best) anecdotal. Once again, no one is saying the bike...
What I'm stating isn't false, the bike lost every major shootout, and your evidence is (at best) anecdotal. Once again, no one is saying the bike is bad, it's just not as good as the others. Bikes matter, just ask McGrath about his switch to KTM, or RV when he switched to a 2012 model after Washougal in 2011. He flat out said the bike was better. How many top pros are lining up on the Suzuki in 2019? Remember when Deano was trying out different bikes and was going to privateer it? He didn't try out the Suzuki.
Why bother comparing the bikes ridden in a magazine test, to that of which is ridden at a pro level? Chad Reeds's bike is nowhere near...
Why bother comparing the bikes ridden in a magazine test, to that of which is ridden at a pro level? Chad Reeds's bike is nowhere near the level of what would've been ridden in the magazine tests.. (as would KR's Honda)


Okay, then let's talk pro level. How many top pros are on the Suzuki? Doesn't seem like too many these days.
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BobPA
Posts
8136
Joined
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Location
PA US
7/13/2019 11:03am
Racer111 wrote:
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC...
Again, RC and Dungey both prove my theory. At the time each of those two went to their new teams it was considered career suicide. RC won 4 straight titles on the Suzuki. Again, Dungey literally made KTM’s cool and how many titles??

If Tomac was on a Suzuki, he’d still be winning the 450 Nationals right now. At this level, it’s 70% talent, 15% mental and 15% bike. Look at Chad, look at James, look at Ferry, look at MC. It didn’t matter what brand they were on. They still owned the track.
BobPA wrote:
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient...
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient tech, you see those two bros kicking for their life during the SX season....everyone else hit the button and rolled away.

Your OPINION is that Suzuki’s turn better than the other brands. It is not a fact. In my OPINION the Honda’s KTM/Husky’s turn better than the yellow bikes. Have not ridden a new Kawasaki yet.

Maybe your mind will realize that your opinions are not facts. But I am beginning to realize that your IQ is below average for this site...which puts you wayyyyy down the list compared to normal people.
Racer111 wrote:
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it...
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it didn’t turn for shit and has horrible headshake. I’m not bolting on a steering stabilizer. Even in the shoot outs you brought up they all said it’s the best turning bike.
There you go again. Anecdotal evidence is not accurate. Your opinion is not a fact. The magazines seem to think the Austrian bikes turn best...Your stupidity has lost my attention. I’m going to go e-start my millennial latte machine and ride some laps on this beautiful day. You won the internet today, congrats my man.
1
2
lcgordon711
Posts
627
Joined
11/28/2017
Location
Denver, CO US
7/13/2019 11:30am
Keep these threads coming. I’ll keep riding a bike that costs half of the orange ones and I’ll keep passing them too haha
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Preston412
Posts
907
Joined
10/5/2012
Location
Saint Augustine, FL US
7/13/2019 11:53am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 12:02pm
Okay, then let's talk pro level. How many top pros are on the Suzuki? Doesn't seem like too many these days.
Their contingency program is lack luster but not by much unless they are top 10 then its $2000 to $5000 less plus there is not a lot of support at the track at the pro level, only JGR and the rest have at least 2 rigs to get help from.

I am not going to get in the debate of which handles best but I have improved my lap times and results on the RMZ coming from a Kawi. I still get a decent amount of holeshots on the RMZ with a stock motor and full yosh. We all have learned to ride differently and each bike will in one way or another for the better, suit your style of riding.

The BFRC shock is similar to that of the air forks, great technology but not really suited for MX/SX because it comes from road racing, I am ok with it except in rollers where a faster rebound (high speed setting option) is needed.
2
malachi177
Posts
2281
Joined
12/18/2010
Location
B.C., BC CA
7/13/2019 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 7/13/2019 1:01pm
BobPA wrote:
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient...
I agree with you that the 450 Zook is not at a disadvantage, can your little baby mind not process information? A kicker is also ancient tech, you see those two bros kicking for their life during the SX season....everyone else hit the button and rolled away.

Your OPINION is that Suzuki’s turn better than the other brands. It is not a fact. In my OPINION the Honda’s KTM/Husky’s turn better than the yellow bikes. Have not ridden a new Kawasaki yet.

Maybe your mind will realize that your opinions are not facts. But I am beginning to realize that your IQ is below average for this site...which puts you wayyyyy down the list compared to normal people.
Racer111 wrote:
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it...
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it didn’t turn for shit and has horrible headshake. I’m not bolting on a steering stabilizer. Even in the shoot outs you brought up they all said it’s the best turning bike.
BobPA wrote:
There you go again. Anecdotal evidence is not accurate. Your opinion is not a fact. The magazines seem to think the Austrian bikes turn best...Your stupidity...
There you go again. Anecdotal evidence is not accurate. Your opinion is not a fact. The magazines seem to think the Austrian bikes turn best...Your stupidity has lost my attention. I’m going to go e-start my millennial latte machine and ride some laps on this beautiful day. You won the internet today, congrats my man.
Bob, you are stating his experience and opinion are irrelevant even thought he’s owned a new Honda and owns a new pumpkin? To me THAT is first hand knowledge compared to your beloved magazines saying Austrians turn better. How much time have you spent riding/owning the ‘18 and newer Zook 450? I’ll await your first hand knowledge too. Even though you’ve stated in the past you would never own one period. 🤦‍♂️
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1
7/13/2019 12:30pm
Racer111 wrote:
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it...
No, it’s been a fact that Suzuki’s turn better for at least 2 decades. The reason I got rid of the Works Edition is because it didn’t turn for shit and has horrible headshake. I’m not bolting on a steering stabilizer. Even in the shoot outs you brought up they all said it’s the best turning bike.
BobPA wrote:
There you go again. Anecdotal evidence is not accurate. Your opinion is not a fact. The magazines seem to think the Austrian bikes turn best...Your stupidity...
There you go again. Anecdotal evidence is not accurate. Your opinion is not a fact. The magazines seem to think the Austrian bikes turn best...Your stupidity has lost my attention. I’m going to go e-start my millennial latte machine and ride some laps on this beautiful day. You won the internet today, congrats my man.
malachi177 wrote:
Bob, you are stating his experience and opinion are irrelevant even thought he’s owned a new Honda and owns a new pumpkin? To me THAT is...
Bob, you are stating his experience and opinion are irrelevant even thought he’s owned a new Honda and owns a new pumpkin? To me THAT is first hand knowledge compared to your beloved magazines saying Austrians turn better. How much time have you spent riding/owning the ‘18 and newer Zook 450? I’ll await your first hand knowledge too. Even though you’ve stated in the past you would never own one period. 🤦‍♂️
I agree with this.
The skeptic in me wonders if the magazine tests are all biased, based on who is giving away what? (I can't be the only one who thinks this??)

As Suzuki aren't investing in riders, teams, the sport, likely they en to investing in magazines either = bottom of the tree when it comes to bike tests... It HAS to happen, doesn't it??

1
Racer111
Posts
2767
Joined
5/23/2009
Location
Concord, NC US
7/13/2019 1:07pm
He came off a bad injury. And he pulled a hell of a lot more holeshots on the Suzuki that he as the KTM.
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