Vortex Sprockets

MXD
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MXD
I bought a steel vortex sprocket (17 KX 450, Vet B MXer) but I'm now having second thoughts based on the opinions I'm hearing about them causing hub failures. Is this just an old wives tail or are they really not structurally sound?

This is the one I purchased
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SweetDaddy
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SweetDaddy 11/29/2016 6:19am
11/29/2016 6:19am
I use a similar looking aluminum Talon with no issues

Camp332
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Camp332 11/29/2016 6:49am
11/29/2016 6:49am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2016 8:00am
I had my rear hub explode going up the face of a jump while using a Vortex rear sprocket. The sprocket looked to have torn itself where the sprocket bolts mounted to the hub. That was a crazy experience I was happy to walk away from. It could have been some freak incident, but I never had that happen before or after I stopped using their sprockets. Edit to let you know that this occurred back in 2011.
Missing_Muffs 11/29/2016 7:11am
11/29/2016 7:11am
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues.

not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like either over torqueing the bolts or not checking them to see if they have come loose.

I suppose the specs could be wrong for the mounting holes but like I said never had an issue with them;

just torque to spec and use locktite

TeamPumpin
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TeamPumpin 11/29/2016 7:59am
11/29/2016 7:59am
I use Vortex front and rear sprockets on all our bikes and have never had an issue. Factory Yamaha uses them and Factory Suzuki uses (used) them too so I think they would be aware of any issues.

The Shop

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Cashmore
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Cashmore 11/29/2016 8:03am
11/29/2016 8:03am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2016 8:03am
TeamPumpin wrote:
I use Vortex front and rear sprockets on all our bikes and have never had an issue. Factory Yamaha uses them and Factory Suzuki uses (used)...
I use Vortex front and rear sprockets on all our bikes and have never had an issue. Factory Yamaha uses them and Factory Suzuki uses (used) them too so I think they would be aware of any issues.
Factory bike parts....

normal person parts

Laughing
MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 8:10am
11/29/2016 8:10am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2016 8:30am
Missing_Muffs wrote:
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues. not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like...
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues.

not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like either over torqueing the bolts or not checking them to see if they have come loose.

I suppose the specs could be wrong for the mounting holes but like I said never had an issue with them;

just torque to spec and use locktite

The theory is that the lack of support around the hub (no solid ring to mate to the hub) allows the sprocket to flex and put too much pressure on the bolts which eventually snaps the bolt holes off, on the hub.
MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 8:11am
11/29/2016 8:11am
TeamPumpin wrote:
I use Vortex front and rear sprockets on all our bikes and have never had an issue. Factory Yamaha uses them and Factory Suzuki uses (used)...
I use Vortex front and rear sprockets on all our bikes and have never had an issue. Factory Yamaha uses them and Factory Suzuki uses (used) them too so I think they would be aware of any issues.
Even if the sprockets are identical to what I buy, I'm sure their hubs/Ti bolts are stronger and they also probably change the sprockets out every week.
TeamPumpin
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TeamPumpin 11/29/2016 8:16am
11/29/2016 8:16am
MXD wrote:
Even if the sprockets are identical to what I buy, I'm sure their hubs/Ti bolts are stronger and they also probably change the sprockets out every...
Even if the sprockets are identical to what I buy, I'm sure their hubs/Ti bolts are stronger and they also probably change the sprockets out every week.
Good point. Plus I'm old & slow so my sprockets don't carry much of a load. I do torque my sprocket bolts on the reg though. Wink
Missing_Muffs 11/29/2016 8:46am
11/29/2016 8:46am
Missing_Muffs wrote:
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues. not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like...
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues.

not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like either over torqueing the bolts or not checking them to see if they have come loose.

I suppose the specs could be wrong for the mounting holes but like I said never had an issue with them;

just torque to spec and use locktite

MXD wrote:
The theory is that the lack of support around the hub (no solid ring to mate to the hub) allows the sprocket to flex and put...
The theory is that the lack of support around the hub (no solid ring to mate to the hub) allows the sprocket to flex and put too much pressure on the bolts which eventually snaps the bolt holes off, on the hub.
Interesting I can see the theory behind that but I guess you would need an engineer to run some testing to come up with some numbers to see if there is any truth to that. Seems the flex would have to be side to side while the actual load from riding comes font to back or rotational.

there was a post the other day showing failures like that but they were blaming the tusk brand hub for the failure.


MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 10:36am
11/29/2016 10:36am
Missing_Muffs wrote:
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues. not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like...
I have been using both the steel and aluminum from Vortex with no issues.

not sure how a sprocket would cause a hub failure. sounds like either over torqueing the bolts or not checking them to see if they have come loose.

I suppose the specs could be wrong for the mounting holes but like I said never had an issue with them;

just torque to spec and use locktite

MXD wrote:
The theory is that the lack of support around the hub (no solid ring to mate to the hub) allows the sprocket to flex and put...
The theory is that the lack of support around the hub (no solid ring to mate to the hub) allows the sprocket to flex and put too much pressure on the bolts which eventually snaps the bolt holes off, on the hub.
Missing_Muffs wrote:
Interesting I can see the theory behind that but I guess you would need an engineer to run some testing to come up with some numbers...
Interesting I can see the theory behind that but I guess you would need an engineer to run some testing to come up with some numbers to see if there is any truth to that. Seems the flex would have to be side to side while the actual load from riding comes font to back or rotational.

there was a post the other day showing failures like that but they were blaming the tusk brand hub for the failure.


I think it started out blaming the Tusk hub but the consensus quickly turned to the sprocket design. I hadn't heard of it until then so I did some research and turned up a few similar stories and the common link was sprockets without full contact on the hub.
MotoX85
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MotoX85 11/29/2016 10:39am
11/29/2016 10:39am
IF you had a hub failure around a sprocket, its because the bolts came loose from the sprocket. This will happen with any brand of sprocket if the bolts get too loose
MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 10:41am
11/29/2016 10:41am
MotoX85 wrote:
IF you had a hub failure around a sprocket, its because the bolts came loose from the sprocket. This will happen with any brand of sprocket...
IF you had a hub failure around a sprocket, its because the bolts came loose from the sprocket. This will happen with any brand of sprocket if the bolts get too loose
So maybe this type of sprocket design leads to bolts loosening up and needing to be checked more often?
kott0n
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kott0n 11/29/2016 10:59am
11/29/2016 10:59am
Checking mine tonight.
Camp332
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Camp332 11/29/2016 11:09am
11/29/2016 11:09am Edited Date/Time 11/29/2016 11:10am
It is very possible that my sprocket bolts became loose. I am usually pretty good at checking things like that.

That was the only time in my life I had an issue like that. It was also the first and last time I used a Vortex sprocket.

scared the shit outta me Bro's!
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 11/29/2016 11:23am
11/29/2016 11:23am
MXD wrote:
I bought a steel vortex sprocket (17 KX 450, Vet B MXer) but I'm now having second thoughts based on the opinions I'm hearing about them...
I bought a steel vortex sprocket (17 KX 450, Vet B MXer) but I'm now having second thoughts based on the opinions I'm hearing about them causing hub failures. Is this just an old wives tail or are they really not structurally sound?

This is the one I purchased
From a design standpoint, those "fins" where the clearance hole for the bolt is looks really weak. If that sproket starts to warp left/right it could easily come apart and wreck your spokes and hub.

Id spend the money for a good set of renthal sprockets myself. No way would i run that sprocket.
MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 11:30am
11/29/2016 11:30am
Acidreamer wrote:
From a design standpoint, those "fins" where the clearance hole for the bolt is looks really weak. If that sproket starts to warp left/right it could...
From a design standpoint, those "fins" where the clearance hole for the bolt is looks really weak. If that sproket starts to warp left/right it could easily come apart and wreck your spokes and hub.

Id spend the money for a good set of renthal sprockets myself. No way would i run that sprocket.
That's kind of where my head is at.
Tpog496
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Tpog496 11/29/2016 12:18pm
11/29/2016 12:18pm
I've used them with no issues.
mrtuf
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mrtuf 11/29/2016 12:56pm
11/29/2016 12:56pm
MXD wrote:
I bought a steel vortex sprocket (17 KX 450, Vet B MXer) but I'm now having second thoughts based on the opinions I'm hearing about them...
I bought a steel vortex sprocket (17 KX 450, Vet B MXer) but I'm now having second thoughts based on the opinions I'm hearing about them causing hub failures. Is this just an old wives tail or are they really not structurally sound?

This is the one I purchased
We have used these Vortex sprockets for over 5 years for the TUF Racing AX team. We usually run 2-4 teeth over the stock size which even puts more of a strain on them and we have never had a problem. No sprocket design will protect you from loose sprocket bolts though. Also they do not make "special" sprockets for the race teams we use off the shelf product.

Pit Row

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peelout
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peelout 11/29/2016 1:14pm
11/29/2016 1:14pm
i torque my sprocket bolts every day, whether i ride or not
BobPA
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BobPA 11/29/2016 1:14pm
11/29/2016 1:14pm
Acidreamer wrote:
From a design standpoint, those "fins" where the clearance hole for the bolt is looks really weak. If that sproket starts to warp left/right it could...
From a design standpoint, those "fins" where the clearance hole for the bolt is looks really weak. If that sproket starts to warp left/right it could easily come apart and wreck your spokes and hub.

Id spend the money for a good set of renthal sprockets myself. No way would i run that sprocket.
Renthal sprockets are an absolute joke. Premium price and they are made out of Play-Doh
MXD
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MXD 11/29/2016 1:18pm
11/29/2016 1:18pm
BobPA wrote:
Renthal sprockets are an absolute joke. Premium price and they are made out of Play-Doh
That has pretty much been my experience. I have a twin ring on my 16 450 with less than 10 hours on it and it is destroyed. And I clean and lube my chain every time I ride so it's not lack of maintenance.
peelout
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peelout 11/29/2016 2:17pm
11/29/2016 2:17pm
on a serious note i'll never run anything but an Ironman sprocket. best sprockets money can buy.
coastlinecascot 11/29/2016 3:24pm
11/29/2016 3:24pm
Supersprox steel or primary drive steel sprockets for me. Cheap and last forever. Also ert2 chains
Hcallz5
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Hcallz5 11/29/2016 3:35pm
11/29/2016 3:35pm
I run Vortex sprockets on both my bikes and I have never had a problem. If those sprocket bolts loosen up it takes the strength out of it. I check mine whenever I do oil change, they were loose one time and took them all out and used red loctite.
motokiwi
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motokiwi 11/29/2016 3:42pm
11/29/2016 3:42pm
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I thought vortex specialized in ignitions?
1
kott0n
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kott0n 11/29/2016 3:44pm
11/29/2016 3:44pm
motokiwi wrote:
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I...
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I thought vortex specialized in ignitions?
I think thats Vertex and Vortex makes pistons currently.
Racer_Twentynine 11/29/2016 7:50pm
11/29/2016 7:50pm
motokiwi wrote:
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I...
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I thought vortex specialized in ignitions?
Vortex racing.
They sponsor a couple guys you might know
Dungy
JS7
Cooper Web
And many others
They make sprockets, chains and handle bars for mx
They are also big in the sport bike segment.
ML512
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ML512 11/29/2016 7:57pm
11/29/2016 7:57pm
motokiwi wrote:
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I...
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I thought vortex specialized in ignitions?
Racer_Twentynine wrote:
Vortex racing. They sponsor a couple guys you might know Dungy JS7 Cooper Web And many others They make sprockets, chains and handle bars for mx...
Vortex racing.
They sponsor a couple guys you might know
Dungy
JS7
Cooper Web
And many others
They make sprockets, chains and handle bars for mx
They are also big in the sport bike segment.
Dungey runs Renthal... James Stewart doesn't have a team deal so...
ML512
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ML512 11/29/2016 7:59pm
11/29/2016 7:59pm
motokiwi wrote:
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I...
If its advertised on Pulp Mx its probably just once of Mathes buddies trying to make a quick buck rather than a dedicated sprocket company... I thought vortex specialized in ignitions?
kott0n wrote:
I think thats Vertex and Vortex makes pistons currently.
No...

There are two Vortex companies...

One Vortex is based in Utah and makes handlebars, sprockets, and other hard parts; plus makes quite few of these parts for the streetbike world.

The other Vortex is an Australian company which makes aftermarket programmable ECU/ignitions.

Vertex is a piston brand...
BobPA
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BobPA 11/29/2016 8:04pm
11/29/2016 8:04pm
ML512 wrote:
No... There are two Vortex companies... One Vortex is based in Utah and makes handlebars, sprockets, and other hard parts; plus makes quite few of these...
No...

There are two Vortex companies...

One Vortex is based in Utah and makes handlebars, sprockets, and other hard parts; plus makes quite few of these parts for the streetbike world.

The other Vortex is an Australian company which makes aftermarket programmable ECU/ignitions.

Vertex is a piston brand...
Vertex was the OEM piston in my KTM...

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