Honda XR250R build e-start- titanium

Al259
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Bielefeld DE
Edited Date/Time 10/19/2022 2:15pm
I‘ve been reading here quitely and following along. I thought I would share my build. As a Familie we lived In Tanzania East Africa for the last 3 Years. The place we lived was a pretty remote area in the west, so using dirt bikes is a day today thing.
We just very recently moved back to Germany and we brought our bikes with us. One of the bikes is an 1995 XR250 MD30 Modell. We bought it from Zanzibar. Its quite unique because it's a Japanese Modell with Electric start, steel tank, high output stator. The bike was in pretty rough state when I bought It, but we got It to a ridable condition.



This how it must have looked like new
For comparison a pic of the 1996 xr250r



Before Moving to Africa I had worked with a couple of factory teams, in Europe and Australia, and from this experience I know its possible to improve and customize every bike.
The goal is to Tailor this bike to my wife's needs.
Some of the things I want to take care of:
the stock Weight of this bike is 130kgs( at least that is what Honda claims, real world is probably a bit more), Powerwise they claim 28hp output at the crank which results in aprox. about 22 at rear wheel, I’m going for just a little better suspension, just a little more adjustable front fork. Note its going to stay a XR.

One very interesting fact about this bike is that when the western world was still waiting for Honda to update the Xr250r for 1996, Japan was already riding the new model updated with E-start for a year.
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Al259
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12/20/2020 10:14am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2022 2:42pm
Here some pics of the bike when I bought it.





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Al259
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12/20/2020 10:21am Edited Date/Time 1/15/2021 10:35pm
So After getting the bike to our Place, I started working on it to make it rideable.
So I began with disassembly, do to the fact the bike was in very bad condition it took quite a while.

In Tanzania there's not to much choice in bikes so you take what you can get. If there would have been a choice I would have got a different bike. Its pretty much the same situation for parts.





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Al259
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12/20/2020 10:33am Edited Date/Time 9/5/2022 1:20pm
Once I got it rideable, modifications began. During my Time in TZ I made friends with a couple of guys that did a bit of riding and ended up servicing 2 Honda Xr250 MD30. During the process I learned alot about the bike. Especially what the differences between the different XR250 Models out there are. The Japanese model is basically a complete different bike. They only share the letters XR that's it.
Different Swing Arm with a different chain slider mount which only allows small sprocket sizes,
Main frame has different tabs do to the Steel tank, Engine mounts are lower because the engine sits in the frame a little lower than in the me ME08 models, bigger wiring harness, different steering angle, different gear ratios.

The MD30 Uses a Vacuum carb it works fine but is useless Offroad. Front fork has no adjustment what so ever. The MD30 even has a little less ground clearance the ME08 (AUS,US, EU Model). The rear Airboot has a bigger diameter.
(When swapping to the XR250R ME08 Carb you have to use the rear air-boot from the ME08 model and the carb bowl drain screw has to be changed to a flat model. Otherwise you'll run into problems with the carb touching the startermotor. Other then that you need the trottle assembly including cables). But its way better to swap to the Mikuni Flatslide TM33, with the Mikuni the Trottle Cable also need to be updated.

But the Cool thing is that all XR250 models share the same Engine cases (only the inner 2 and the clutch cover), which means that you can build your self a costum tranny. That's what I'll probably end up doing. If needed. I need to split the cases at some point anyways.

So my goal was to make the suspension action as good as possible, which includes removing unsprung weight, increasing the braking performance, just make my wife have fun and enjoy when she rides it.

Basically I'm trying to build the best XR250R, that still looks like a halfway stock XR but with Electric start a quite a bit lighter and with a little more power.






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Al259
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12/20/2020 10:51am Edited Date/Time 2/2/2023 8:29pm

I started reducing weight where I could with carbon fiber and Titanium, and aluminium. I got an XR400 Alloy subframe and costume welded the brackets for the batterie box. The XR400 Subframe will fit the 250R without any modifications. Just this AS-alloy Subframe needs to be modified a bit to fit the 250. But there's no welding included to get this done, just removing some material.




Alloy XR 400 subframe


Titanium Brake pistons and some modifications to lighten the rear caliper and hanger.
-61g front caliper modifications+Ti
-56g rear caliper modifications+Ti
-29g rear hanger modification
Total:
-141g

on my little china mill,








 

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The Shop

Al259
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12/20/2020 11:20am Edited Date/Time 5/8/2022 2:52pm
One of the big parts to loose weight on the bike is swapping the Steel tank for a regular XR plastic tank, but while living in TZ that was pretty difficult because shipping stuff there is basically impossible do to the amount of import Tax they ask and the high shipping prices. So while in TZ I settled for the small stuff I could get in when flying back and forth. I found a alloy brake pedal, alloy shifter, alloy wheel spacers, lithium batterie, a different headlight(the head light alone saved about a pound to the OEM 2 part setup). Little bits and peaces that all add up. One of the sad things is the no one really offers stuff for these bike anymore. Maybe due to the fact that the’re out dated.



Brake pedal


new headlight



machined and stock linkage



Was able to finde a couple of Rotors the OEM had done there time, the front one saved a couple about 50 grams

The Stock battery was 1,95kg
The lithium was 490g

That alone was saving 1,460g
-500g headlight
-50g front rotor

Total for now is:
2151g
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Al259
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12/20/2020 11:38am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2021 5:49am
I got some steel braided brakelines and used a Pro circuit alloy banjo bolts,

Titanium piston fitted

later I found out that 08+ YZ250F from Brake calipers fit the XR250R brake hanger, and are quite a bit lighter since thy are smaller in design and use Alloy brake pistons.




Swaped out the gearing for a rental alloy sprocket and a nice none-O ring DID chain, and then we just rode it for a while

Swaped as much bolts as I could for titanium





-126,1g

Total:
2.277g
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Al259
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12/20/2020 11:49am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2021 5:50am
Some pics of the small, alloy bits I exchanged.





Carbon fiber heat shield






Now she sits in Germany a waiting her new awakening

I didn’t note the weight of the stock heatshield
-160,3g
Total:
2437,4g
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Al259
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12/20/2020 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2021 10:23am



that's the differents between stock steel and, Alloy.



So the frame has already been swapped for a 2001 XR250R frame, and I got a plastic tank of Ebay, just need to find a tank mount that I can copy in carbon. at the moment I'm swapping out the steel bolts for titanium.
Got one of these shock collar bearings, and noticed that the Yz250F from 08 use the same shock body size but use an alloy spring collar on the top. So I'll swap that XR steel collar for an YZ alloy one.

I got ahold of a company in Japan ( Yamamoto) that are offering a full titanium exhaust system for the XR, as soon as I have some cash at hand I'll try to get one. Apparently the complete system ist only 3,2kg.

for now I'm doing the rear Wheel next, I'll swap the stock rim for Excel- Rim as the a quite a bit lighter, and go for YZ alloy nipples if they fit the XR spokes. I'll try to turn down the hub 2-3 mm as well.That will be my first attempt at turning down hubs my self.

I have a 2003 WR250F front End with a titanium axle, and Lightspeed carbon guards that I hope to fit on the XR. I think SSS suspension would be a bit overkill for the XR. I think the 46 mm OC will be fine.


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Al259
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12/21/2020 4:53am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2021 5:52am






-10g
-11g ( banjos)
Total:
2458,4g
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Coughlin639
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Clayton, NY US
12/21/2020 5:11am
I love those carbon engine mounts. Did you cut them yourself out of a blank sheet or lay your own carbon out of pre-preg?
Al259
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12/21/2020 5:17am
So I got the alloy spring YZ Collar fitted. Will probably go for the bladder cap of a 03 WR250F they have a little more volume.I decided to go with the thrust bearing for now as adds in weight, made later I If can find a titaium Spring. Replaced Shock and linkage bolt with titanium.
Al259
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12/21/2020 5:19am
I love those carbon engine mounts. Did you cut them yourself out of a blank sheet or lay your own carbon out of pre-preg?
Hey, I just cut them out of a Sheet of carbon.
1
Rickyisms
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12/21/2020 6:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2022 12:00pm
Damn! Never thought I would see an XR with so much carbon and Ti! I had an 03 that I still regret selling. It wasn’t the fastest, lightest, or best handling but I knew with very minimal maintenance that bike was unkillable. They’re very hard to find in my neighborhood now. I search for a 250 or 400 all the time.
Al259
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12/22/2020 1:39am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2022 11:15am
Yes the XRs are as solid as it gets, but really not a race bike for todays tracks. There's a guy on YouTube that raced a 250r at Glen Helen. He ended up killing the thing but did well.

Yesterday was a bit frustrating the YZ250F front brake doesn't work. It would have been quite a bit lighter though.



the caliper with the golden titanium Pistons ist the Stock XR250R one, the other one is the YZ250F 08 Modell.

Before I used a CRF250 Front master cylinder from 2008, now I' switching to a 2013 Modell which should have positive effect to the feel when using the front brake, Honda claims the bigger piston increases the brake force a couple %.


in 2001 honda changed a couple of parts on the clutch assembly making it a bit lighter( at least that is what I think). So I'll be looking for an 01-04 Complete Clutch assembly to fit to the bike.

As it is quite hard to get parts before Christmas, I started doing my homework on the engine before I start tearing it down. Its always good to have plan and some parts lined up.

Here are the gear rations:

XR250 Japan/ Baja

1st gear 2.769
2nd gear 1.882
3rd gear 1.380
4th gear 1.083
5th gear 0.923
6th gear 0.814
Drive ratios (primary/final) 3.100/3.076



this is from the Honda manual for 98
1st gear 2.769
2nd gear 1.941
3rd gear 1.450
4th gear 1.173
5th gear 0.960
6th gear 0.814
Drive ratios (primary/final) 3.100/3.692


Looking at the parts lists it seems as if the 2 shafts are the same.That means after a little bit of testing I could swap out some gears to make it custom.

the compression rations are different as well, the Jap. Modell uses 9.3:1 (maybe the Japanese don't have as good quality fuel.) Where other XRs use 10.2:1. I'm planing on going to 10.5:1 and a 75.5mm bore = 266cc. The tranny once done is going to get the REM treatment and some of the shafts in the and rockers a going to get a coating to reduce a bit of heat. I’m still looking for a stock XR250R camshaft in good shape does anyone out there have one? If can’t find one I’ll settle for hotcam stage 1.

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Al259
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12/22/2020 11:40am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2022 11:16am
Serviced the rear master cylinder, and bleed the brakes, and Test fitted a FMF titanium pipe for fun.
12/22/2020 7:10pm
I had a Japanese XR250 i used to ride to work...
but it was definitely designed for riding more on road than off
(I think that is the reason for the lower compression and different drive ratios)
Al259
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12/22/2020 11:36pm
Yeah, from the way the bike is build you can tell it’s more a daily driver Type of bike. That’s why a got rid of mostly all of the Japanese chassis parts.
Al259
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12/24/2020 2:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/11/2023 9:09pm

Thanks,
Here’s a pic of the front end that I’m thinking of mounting


I first thought of an air fork, but I think that would be a bit overkill for a XR250. Weight wise that would be the way to go. But aside from the XR250R I’m building the this WR250F 2006
as my final enduro race bike, going to put in a newer SSS YZ fork so I have the front end for free.


 

2
Al259
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12/28/2020 12:11pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2021 5:54am
had some time today to put the carb back together, and do some jetting corrections. I stumbled across a spare YZ250F Rear master Cylinder that I had laying around and compared the weight to the stock XR cylinder and its 100gs less. The Best thing, its mounts right up and works fine. Just buy comparing the YZ setup with the CRF rear master, I think if the CRF fits the bracket I should be able to save a couple of grams more. I had a spare CRF Rear Master somewhere but I can't find it at the moment.

here a pic of the YZ master on the XR



Total:
2.558,4g

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Al259
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12/31/2020 5:43am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2021 11:33am
So I got the WR250F front out. I‘m really not motivated these days. Parts are hard come buy. I hit up guy on Instagram who does a lot of custom work on XRs for rally in Italy. He makes a sweet Carbon Fiber skid plate. As soon as I’ll get it I’ll post some pics.

Slosh 112
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Mackay QLD AU
1/1/2021 3:48pm
Man thats cool as going hard on an XR250! Good stuff!
Al259
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1/2/2021 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2021 3:39pm






Got the stems pressed out, and made quick Sketch. It will probably take 2-3 weeks till I get the stem done. I need to make a drawing which is not my strength. Then I need get the stem hard anodized so it doesn’t corrode.
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Al259
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1/3/2021 11:31am
Finished the stem drawing, It’s going to be made from 7075 aircraft Alloy and hard anodized.( same stuff RG3 and PC use for their stems and clamps if I’m right.

Measurements are in mm.

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1/4/2021 7:16am
Are you going to get this part anodized as a single part?
I made some wheel spacer last year and got them hard anodized and the price was 90 euro's.
The price mainly consist of start up cost.
I am planning to get 4 sets of fork tubes anodized but dont have a price yet.
2
Al259
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1/4/2021 9:56am Edited Date/Time 5/16/2022 9:50pm
Are you going to get this part anodized as a single part? I made some wheel spacer last year and got them hard anodized and the...
Are you going to get this part anodized as a single part?
I made some wheel spacer last year and got them hard anodized and the price was 90 euro's.
The price mainly consist of start up cost.
I am planning to get 4 sets of fork tubes anodized but dont have a price yet.
Hey, wow that's crazy expensive.
Maybe I'll leave it the way it is then. I trying to get everything to fit and work before I do the cosmetics. Even vapor blasting in Germany is crazy expensive.
Al259
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1/4/2021 10:12am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2023 9:11pm

today I spend some time weighing all the part of the two front ends,

WR250F tripple clamps +210g
WR250F Forklegs -1070g
Ti WR250F front axle -130g
WR250F front wheel = as the XR

so I've saved 990g on the front End swap which is pretty cool. Funny because on Thumper-talk a lot of people claim that the fork swap would be adding weight. The savings would be even more significant if one would go to an Air fork but I think that's a setup that takes to much time to get dialed in for my application.

What I forgot is that there still more that can be saved in using Bicycle tubes, and going for the standard excel rim (not the A60). I think it’s round about 600g per wheel just doing those two things.

Total: 3.548,4g

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