Tomac and that Kawasaki

Moto520
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3497
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2/4/2013
Location
Schaumburg, IL US
8/24/2020 1:58pm
Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up. I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition is the riders...
Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up.
I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition is the riders use of the clutch.
Maybe the rider has to be more mindful of the issue.
I would think they would put springs in the clutch that are so stiff that it would alleviate the issues.
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8/24/2020 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 2:34pm
Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up. I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition is the riders...
Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up.
I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition is the riders use of the clutch.
Maybe the rider has to be more mindful of the issue.
Moto520 wrote:
I would think they would put springs in the clutch that are so stiff that it would alleviate the issues.
If you engage-and-disengage a clutch, it will heat up and induce wear at any spring tension. It is a friction device -- It's entire job is to convert kinetic energy into heat.
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8/24/2020 2:18pm
Silas444 wrote:
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should...
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should he desire to. But of course, he didn't. To him, winning against Torsten Hallman and NOT seizing his engine and/or breaking his frame in half was almost an art form.

I knew a really fast kid who was sponsored (free bikes/gear, not full-on pro), and he kept blowing up his bike and bragging about it in the pits afterward. I took him aside and told him the Joel Robert story, and then I simply asked him if he thought his bike sponsor was glad he was making their bike look unreliable. To my knowledge, he never blew a motor at a race again.

Eli's at a very, VERY, different level, of course, but making your bike look like an unreliable heap is bad form regardless, in my very humble opinion. You dance with your date and you treat her like she's special, even if she keeps stepping on your toes. Simple as that.
dboivin wrote:
if i wanted to send a message to my bike sponsor to supply me a bike that i can win on....taking it easy and getting 5ths...
if i wanted to send a message to my bike sponsor to supply me a bike that i can win on....taking it easy and getting 5ths is not gonna send that message. Kawasaki is not paying him big dollars to nurse their bike to the finish line...c'mon.


in this day and age, eli should not be babying a bike to get to the finish...its 2020...this is 100% on bikes/parts. something failed and shouldn't have. Most Enduros create much worse conditions than a mudder at loretta's...that bike should of lasted. Call it what it is....a mechanical failure.
Kawasaki ARE paying him to win the championship- and he could've put himself in a much better position by nursing it home.

Once back in the pits, he'll say "I woudve won that if I had confidence in the bike lasting the duration- sort it out!"

Kawasaki would much prefer this message Id imagine, as opposed to yours..
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Shaned9326
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Location
Kill Devil Hills, NC US
8/24/2020 2:36pm
GuyB wrote:
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/24/445502/s1200_082220lorettas2racing2281.jpg[/img] I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks...
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
Lineman25 wrote:
Does Tomac say screw it I have won 3 of these or does he have the motivation to go after it again.
Tomacs probably sayin put me on a real national track and watch what happens!! Starting this weekend!
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The Shop

karsmakers
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Yuba City, CA US
8/24/2020 4:18pm
I think he's got a little Covid in the crankcase
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8/24/2020 4:47pm
Anyone who has a Kawi knows how crazy hot they run. I off road mine sometimes, so I have a fan, a high pressure cap, and run water (with wetter) which is the BEST coolant...and the thing still scares me with how hot it runs. If I knew it was a mud race, I would put in thicker oil so that it still had decent viscosity when the motor overheats. I bet the oil just got too thin...and that was all she wrote.
Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA US
8/24/2020 8:50pm
Gravel wrote:
After one DNF, a pro rider should be pissed off, quietly and clearly make his management understand that there is a problem with the equipment, and...
After one DNF, a pro rider should be pissed off, quietly and clearly make his management understand that there is a problem with the equipment, and for the 2nd Moto the rider should adjust the way he rides to preserve the equipment and finish the 2nd Moto. He is there to do a job and should always have a clear mind and a real understanding of the limitations of the day. To keep hammering the $hit out of equipment that just broke from that treatment is asking for it to break again, that’s letting emotions control the outcome instead of doing the job like a professional. Think of how much more successful ET could be if he had better control of his emotions, when he’s on, he has (IMO) better speed than RC4 had. He just doesn’t manage difficulty as well.

Dungey had that race intelligence, and he was pretty successful, without the speed of ET3.
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look...
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look but understandable given the conditions. Feel like people here are pinning this on Eli just to try to blame Eli.

Jett Lawrence’s bike quit, and I don’t see anyone blaming him for it. It is what it is, we don’t have to play childish blame games just cuz we don’t like the riders
Pretty emotional reaction..

All I’m saying is that a professional should be focused on results, and finishing is always better than a DNF. Always. Should Kawasaki make a tougher bike? Absolutely! But last Sunday ET had a bike with a proven weakness in those conditions and he didn’t adjust his riding enough to finish the second moto after not finishing the first moto.

BTW, I’m a huge ET3 fan, just like I’m a long time fan of his dad.
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Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA US
8/24/2020 8:56pm
Silas444 wrote:
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should...
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should he desire to. But of course, he didn't. To him, winning against Torsten Hallman and NOT seizing his engine and/or breaking his frame in half was almost an art form.

I knew a really fast kid who was sponsored (free bikes/gear, not full-on pro), and he kept blowing up his bike and bragging about it in the pits afterward. I took him aside and told him the Joel Robert story, and then I simply asked him if he thought his bike sponsor was glad he was making their bike look unreliable. To my knowledge, he never blew a motor at a race again.

Eli's at a very, VERY, different level, of course, but making your bike look like an unreliable heap is bad form regardless, in my very humble opinion. You dance with your date and you treat her like she's special, even if she keeps stepping on your toes. Simple as that.
Great story, Joel Robert is a legend!
Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA US
8/24/2020 9:08pm
We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down and actually developing the equipment to work in the mud? Or do they all just accept the carnage and keep watching the equipment fail in completely predictable conditions?
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8/24/2020 9:15pm
Gravel wrote:
We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down...
We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down and actually developing the equipment to work in the mud? Or do they all just accept the carnage and keep watching the equipment fail in completely predictable conditions?
It seems like testing time is pretty limited just to come up with a setup that can win the majority of rounds, let alone an outlier.
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EngIceDave
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Merritt Island, FL US
8/25/2020 4:50am
Gravel wrote:
We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down...
We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down and actually developing the equipment to work in the mud? Or do they all just accept the carnage and keep watching the equipment fail in completely predictable conditions?
Mud creates so much damage as it is, never mind the electrical.

And no one wants to ride in it.

Basically, teams build the best they can while keeping mud in mind, but mostly how to “logically” waterproof everything if and when needed.
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NewOldSchool
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High Point, NC US
8/25/2020 5:08am
Serious question has Eli been interviewed about the race since Saturday? If so what is he saying? Given his finishes at any of the mud races for the last few years I’d say Eli knows how to ride in the mud.
8/25/2020 5:48am
Anyone who has a Kawi knows how crazy hot they run. I off road mine sometimes, so I have a fan, a high pressure cap, and...
Anyone who has a Kawi knows how crazy hot they run. I off road mine sometimes, so I have a fan, a high pressure cap, and run water (with wetter) which is the BEST coolant...and the thing still scares me with how hot it runs. If I knew it was a mud race, I would put in thicker oil so that it still had decent viscosity when the motor overheats. I bet the oil just got too thin...and that was all she wrote.
Back in 2009 the Kawi MXGP team was running these. Maybe Tomacs team have sponsor commitments & they cant use this but if i were crew chief id of threw everything i could on that kawi to get her across the line



GangGreen
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Mechanicsburg, PA US
8/25/2020 5:59am
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
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EngIceDave
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8/25/2020 6:11am
If I remember right, Tomac’s bike already has a small oil cooler.
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Bearuno
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4449
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Location
AU
8/25/2020 6:28am
GuyB wrote:
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/24/445502/s1200_082220lorettas2racing2281.jpg[/img] I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks...
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
There should be a few of us here that remember the fender extensions that Acerbis, UFO and others made in the 80s. And, not just for the front, ones were made for some rear fenders. I think Dave Thorpe ran a front one on the forward section of his RC, nearly all the time.

Then, many of us could remember the rubber flaps that would be run on bikes in the 70s and earlier?

I kept an KX /KDX fender ( the w8dest at the time, and, in red) with fender extenders and rubber mud flaps for my XR/CR Hybrids ready, when I was facing a mud run. Those and the rear fender extension made things so much better, plus some thorough airbox and electrical prep.

Maybe such things might be of use, even now?

They are, of course, no guarantee, and, with today's fenders that are, essentially styling exercises, and much less of a 'Fender / Mudguard' - well, it would make for some pretty complicated extenders to be made.

Having said all that, I've still found mud in the Back of my radiators - from it bouncing / deflecting off my legs.........

Build , Preperation , a Rider using his Intelligence, and, a bit of Luck is what can get you through the conditions we encounter riding Motocross / Offroad.

Not getting through 2 x 30minute plus 2 lap Motos, from a Factory Team and Rider combination is a worry. On all those points I put forward in the previous sentence.


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VicDaMoan03
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Los Lunas, NM US
8/25/2020 6:34am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
No way man we shouldn't dumb it down just because some bikes failed. It's part of racing and your user name tells me your opinion is biassed.
8/25/2020 8:10am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help us customers in the long run.

After watching the amount of Kawasakis that didnt finish the last 2 des nations & throw tomacs 2 dnf’s in last week, id be very nervous to go buy a kawi 450. This bad press for kawi will hopefully lead to some engine mods which will help us customers in the future.
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mxb2
Posts
22467
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Location
Bowie, MD US
8/25/2020 8:18am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help...
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help us customers in the long run.

After watching the amount of Kawasakis that didnt finish the last 2 des nations & throw tomacs 2 dnf’s in last week, id be very nervous to go buy a kawi 450. This bad press for kawi will hopefully lead to some engine mods which will help us customers in the future.
Better stay away from the new honda then.
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mxb2
Posts
22467
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
8/25/2020 8:19am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help...
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help us customers in the long run.

After watching the amount of Kawasakis that didnt finish the last 2 des nations & throw tomacs 2 dnf’s in last week, id be very nervous to go buy a kawi 450. This bad press for kawi will hopefully lead to some engine mods which will help us customers in the future.
Yea, cause vital.members ride the same bike, conditions, speed as tomac. Lol..
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8/25/2020 8:32am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help...
What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help us customers in the long run.

After watching the amount of Kawasakis that didnt finish the last 2 des nations & throw tomacs 2 dnf’s in last week, id be very nervous to go buy a kawi 450. This bad press for kawi will hopefully lead to some engine mods which will help us customers in the future.
450 - Tomac - Kawasaki , Barcia - Yamaha, Anderson - Husky , Noren - Suzuki, Sexton - Honda, Savatgy - Suzuki, Masterpool - Husky, Bloss - Husky

250 - Hampshire - Husky, Justin Cooper - Yamaha, Pierce Brown - KTM, Steinke - Kawasaki, Root - Husky, Joey Crown - Yamaha, Hartranft - KTM

It sure doesn't look like Kawasaki was the only manufacture with bikes dropping. Just based on the guys listed here, it was literally every brand. What wins on Sunday also seems to have had their fair share of failures. Even if it was only Kawasaki failing, why would a failing factory bike that is nothing like what you buy off the showroom scare you away? Do you ride as hard as Tomac?
3
PRM31
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8/25/2020 8:32am
No idea if Eli was trying to save his bike. My question about his technique is why use the clutch ALL the time? He seems to have substituted the throttle with the clutch. Every race where some mud impacts the cooling his bike is very hot, or in this case, fails. A clutch is simply not designed for that. There was an interview with his mechanic, last year I think, and he laughed and said Eli’s clutch is replaced after every ride. And he was referring to SX, and very short qualifiers. Clearly he has figured out how to go VERY fast so maybe that will become a thing. But I have to think these DNFs are partially on him. At some point you have to work with the conditions and current level of design and engineering. I’d like to hear what he says.

They need a roll-off screen for the radiator or a small hydraulic actuator on the existing radiator guard to provide a very sharp/quick pop to knock the mud off.
1
Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA US
8/25/2020 8:46am
Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging the air flow? It’s a trivial engineering problem to solve, but the moto world will probably just keep doing the same thing they’ve always done, and keep blowing bikes at every mud race..
7
Shaned9326
Posts
766
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Location
Kill Devil Hills, NC US
8/25/2020 9:02am
GangGreen wrote:
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝...
In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.
Especially if tomac walks their asses on the regular national tracks starting Saturday at iron man!!!
1
nskerb
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504
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Location
Kelso, WA US
8/25/2020 9:33am
PRM31 wrote:
No idea if Eli was trying to save his bike. My question about his technique is why use the clutch ALL the time? He seems to...
No idea if Eli was trying to save his bike. My question about his technique is why use the clutch ALL the time? He seems to have substituted the throttle with the clutch. Every race where some mud impacts the cooling his bike is very hot, or in this case, fails. A clutch is simply not designed for that. There was an interview with his mechanic, last year I think, and he laughed and said Eli’s clutch is replaced after every ride. And he was referring to SX, and very short qualifiers. Clearly he has figured out how to go VERY fast so maybe that will become a thing. But I have to think these DNFs are partially on him. At some point you have to work with the conditions and current level of design and engineering. I’d like to hear what he says.

They need a roll-off screen for the radiator or a small hydraulic actuator on the existing radiator guard to provide a very sharp/quick pop to knock the mud off.
It’s worked pretty well so far.
1
Momus
Posts
441
Joined
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Location
CD
8/25/2020 9:42am Edited Date/Time 8/25/2020 9:43am
Gravel wrote:
Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging...
Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging the air flow? It’s a trivial engineering problem to solve, but the moto world will probably just keep doing the same thing they’ve always done, and keep blowing bikes at every mud race..
It's a non trivial, extremely difficult problem to solve removing pounds of sticky, adherent often drying and hard clay, from a moving motorcycle.

The rotating knobby tyres only do it if they are spinning past a certain speed; the louvres are natural traps.
1
3
peelout
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Location
Ogden, UT US
8/25/2020 11:00am
Pierce lost a motor 2nd moto too.

a lot of bikes broke down, chalk it up to complete shit conditions and pounding the piss out of a dirt bike for 30 +2. things are going to go wrong.

5
8/25/2020 11:50am
Gravel wrote:
Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging...
Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging the air flow? It’s a trivial engineering problem to solve, but the moto world will probably just keep doing the same thing they’ve always done, and keep blowing bikes at every mud race..
Momus wrote:
It's a non trivial, extremely difficult problem to solve removing pounds of sticky, adherent often drying and hard clay, from a moving motorcycle. The rotating knobby...
It's a non trivial, extremely difficult problem to solve removing pounds of sticky, adherent often drying and hard clay, from a moving motorcycle.

The rotating knobby tyres only do it if they are spinning past a certain speed; the louvres are natural traps.
Spinning past a certain speed, you say:
+
Done.
1
1
EngIceDave
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Location
Merritt Island, FL US
8/25/2020 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2020 1:22pm
In the future, for events that bad, I would seriously consider mounting a generator, pressure washer and a water tank on their war wagons and think about quick “pit stops” to quickly blow as much mud out of radiators as possible and swap goggles. (10 seconds?)

That may get you that extra needed lap or two
Rider can see and chose lines better, so go faster and avoid death traps

Might be worth it for teams to consider
15
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