Works edition Honda “hand polished head”??

kb228
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kb228 8/21/2019 12:39pm
8/21/2019 12:39pm
nascarnate326 wrote:
I dont care what it looks like, when you ride one you can tell its smoother than the standard bike. Also the suspension is different, thats...
I dont care what it looks like, when you ride one you can tell its smoother than the standard bike.

Also the suspension is different, thats worth something right?
kb228 wrote:
You should care what it looks like.. You paid for your car to get painted black but they painted it dark gray. You didnt get what...
You should care what it looks like..

You paid for your car to get painted black but they painted it dark gray. You didnt get what you were sold. it doesnt matter if its a new coat of paint and feels smoother than the old finish.

kiwifan wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you dont like the bike....or Honda for that matter

Yes i have a genuine problem with something that will literally never affect me.......... Laughing
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Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 8/21/2019 12:47pm
8/21/2019 12:47pm
Seems like the only thing getting polished is the magnetic strips on people's cards 😂
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/21/2019 1:11pm
8/21/2019 1:11pm
kiwifan wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you dont like the bike....or Honda for that matter

Idp57 wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you like the bike....or Honda for that matter
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/21/2019 1:12pm
8/21/2019 1:12pm
kb228 wrote:
You should care what it looks like.. You paid for your car to get painted black but they painted it dark gray. You didnt get what...
You should care what it looks like..

You paid for your car to get painted black but they painted it dark gray. You didnt get what you were sold. it doesnt matter if its a new coat of paint and feels smoother than the old finish.

kiwifan wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you dont like the bike....or Honda for that matter

kb228 wrote:
Yes i have a genuine problem with something that will literally never affect me.......... Laughing
good grief...
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JWACK
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JWACK 8/21/2019 1:23pm
8/21/2019 1:23pm
ti473 wrote:
So what you're saying is that Derek got a job at Honda??
Honda just wishes Derek would port for them.
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kb228
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kb228 8/21/2019 1:25pm
8/21/2019 1:25pm
kiwifan wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you dont like the bike....or Honda for that matter

Idp57 wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you like the bike....or Honda for that matter
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

Nobody here is knocking the bike itself. The problem lies with hondas advertisements.

Does the GYTR head look like the honda?
Does a ported head from an engine builder look like the honda?

No. Thats the problem. Not the bike itself.
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Idp57
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Idp57 8/21/2019 1:30pm
8/21/2019 1:30pm
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

LOL just a friendly jab.Riding Honda baby Smile
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WW444
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WW444 8/21/2019 1:37pm
8/21/2019 1:37pm
Funny this thread pops up today, and my buddy just took delivery on his 2020 today. I cant wait to ride it.
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PTshox
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PTshox 8/21/2019 1:39pm
8/21/2019 1:39pm
PRM31 wrote:
Describe it any way you want, that head does not match the marketing description.
Bingo (what is said above). Which is the issue at hand in my opinion.

Now, what is a possible is there was a "hand ported" ver of the head that was done, flow benched and rider tested... they then took a mold of the modified intake and exhaust runners (ports) and used those different "slides" in the existing mold for this short production run. This sort of thing would not require complete new tooling. Just change out the slide inserts for those ports. I've been involved in injection molding projects and tooling... this is not hard to do and this would/ could explain the language used in the marketing. Someone would need to measure the two ports to see if there are any dim changes (Miss Ron Hamp - he'd tell you in 5 mins!).

Now, who knows who CNC's those GYTR heads?? There are only a few places that do this well. The key is also who developed the port specs? It requires experience and knowledge that is closely guarded. Guys like Ron Hamp and Bob Wirth - they know this stuff along with what port designs and cross sections (calculated on each bike per the specific bore and stroke) produce specific types of power (you want low to mid? Wide open throttle power - dirt track?- what are you after?). Combine all that with a cam profile etc...

Take a peak at the below link...

https://youtu.be/GR1KBGMbiyU
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 8/21/2019 2:15pm
8/21/2019 2:15pm
peelout wrote:
how often would you say you wash the ol' girl?
Mike_Lawlor wrote:
After every ride but it’s the first time I’ve taken it apart this far. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/20/367438/s1200_F98AB144_D57D_445A_8686_1BBF67DCED6C.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/20/367439/s1200_69BFD7BD_BCE9_4943_BA44_71BF7D8FD7A3.jpg[/img]
After every ride but it’s the first time I’ve taken it apart this far.

Racer111 wrote:
I’m anal about keeping my bikes clean as well. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/20/367463/s1200_377BB384_BB4B_4DF2_ABBC_D7341D0225F3.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/08/20/367462/s1200_DD61FEF1_6D01_4A78_92F6_D8C8F34F64CF.jpg[/img]
I’m anal about keeping my bikes clean as well.

Nice houses... Where?
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PRM31
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PRM31 8/21/2019 2:15pm
8/21/2019 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 2:17pm
Someone going to the race next weekend take the pics and show them to Mitch Payton and ask him what he thinks of this “hand-ported” head. That would be entertaining.

There is nothing hand-ported about that. Period. That is a standard cast head. Honda may want to consider rewording their marketing. I would be pissed off if I bought a bike thinking I was getting something additional and unique, that from what I’ve seen so far is not there. They are good looking bikes though. I’ll give them that.
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 8/21/2019 2:42pm
8/21/2019 2:42pm
If that is “hand-ported”, isn’t every motorcycle part, by that definition, “hand-made”, as a human hand played a role in designing it? How was their non hand ported version made? I assume by the same process.
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PTshox
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PTshox 8/21/2019 2:43pm
8/21/2019 2:43pm
PRM31 wrote:
Someone going to the race next weekend take the pics and show them to Mitch Payton and ask him what he thinks of this “hand-ported” head...
Someone going to the race next weekend take the pics and show them to Mitch Payton and ask him what he thinks of this “hand-ported” head. That would be entertaining.

There is nothing hand-ported about that. Period. That is a standard cast head. Honda may want to consider rewording their marketing. I would be pissed off if I bought a bike thinking I was getting something additional and unique, that from what I’ve seen so far is not there. They are good looking bikes though. I’ll give them that.
This is a smart man... above. What he said!
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toomanykaws
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toomanykaws 8/21/2019 2:43pm
8/21/2019 2:43pm
I wonder what the power difference is between a stock and the Works Edition 450 is. Would been interesting to see a comparison both bikes same day same dyno. Both with say an hour break in time on them.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/21/2019 2:52pm
8/21/2019 2:52pm
toomanykaws wrote:
I wonder what the power difference is between a stock and the Works Edition 450 is. Would been interesting to see a comparison both bikes same...
I wonder what the power difference is between a stock and the Works Edition 450 is. Would been interesting to see a comparison both bikes same day same dyno. Both with say an hour break in time on them.
I have ridden both, from a pants on seat impression, the WE motor is smoother and to me feels more powerful in the midrange, I believe dyno reports have shown a very slight decrease in peak power but I did not notice it. Note: I did not buy the WE for the motor changes.

Obviously the other changes to the bike are much more noticable (and better), which is why I have one, but this thread only deals with the motor.
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Herb Eaversmells 8/21/2019 3:04pm
8/21/2019 3:04pm
Suzuki new advertising on the 450 RMZ,
“Automatic Starter”
Yes push the kick starter down and it starts.
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Mike_Lawlor
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Mike_Lawlor 8/21/2019 3:15pm
8/21/2019 3:15pm
I’m Deff not knocking the bike at all. I love it. It is noticeably smoother than a standard 19 I’ve ridden but in all honesty I’d like to swap the ECU’s and see if the differences fallow the ecu’s and not the bikes. There is minimal if any porting done to the valve pockets. I was just a little let down when I shined my light down the ports and saw the casting imperfections on the ports. It’s defiantly a stretch of the truth in my eyes. Do I hate Honda or the bike no but I wish they were a little more realistic with there descriptions. The way they market it is “we take the porting specs from our race motor department and apply them to the WE”
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JM485
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JM485 8/21/2019 4:02pm
8/21/2019 4:02pm
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

Jesus Christ nobody is saying the bike sucks or that it’s not adequate, they’re calling Honda out on their bullshit stating that the head is hand ported when it clearly is not. It’s not even debatable, what they claim and what they’re producing don’t match up, which is a huge problem. I mean there’s still casting flaws in the ports, come on man. . .

When you buy a GYTR head you get exactly when they advertise, a CNC ported head that is significantly different than stock. The Honda head is misleading at best and honestly is crossing into false advertisement territory as far as I’m concerned. You can live the bike all you want and I’d probably agree if I rode it, I’m sure it’s a fantastic bike, but that’s not the debate here at all.
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H4L
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H4L 8/21/2019 4:28pm
8/21/2019 4:28pm
ti473 wrote:
So what you're saying is that Derek got a job at Honda??
JWACK wrote:
Honda just wishes Derek would port for them.
Laughing Laughing Laughing
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 8/21/2019 4:35pm
8/21/2019 4:35pm
ti473 wrote:
So what you're saying is that Derek got a job at Honda??
JWACK wrote:
Honda just wishes Derek would port for them.
H4L wrote:
Laughing Laughing Laughing
It's my understanding from Boomslang's sources that Honda wanted this to happen but Derek couldn't promise anything within 12 months of Loretta Lynn's
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SeaClassExpert 8/21/2019 4:40pm
8/21/2019 4:40pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 4:40pm
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

Being so mentally fragile that you need to defend your bike choice online because people called out Honda for false advertisement.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/21/2019 4:44pm
8/21/2019 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 4:47pm
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

SeaClassExpert wrote:
Being so mentally fragile that you need to defend your bike choice online because people called out Honda for false advertisement.
Calling me mentally fragile because I do not agree??? fuck off
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/21/2019 4:44pm
8/21/2019 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 4:46pm
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

JM485 wrote:
Jesus Christ nobody is saying the bike sucks or that it’s not adequate, they’re calling Honda out on their bullshit stating that the head is hand...
Jesus Christ nobody is saying the bike sucks or that it’s not adequate, they’re calling Honda out on their bullshit stating that the head is hand ported when it clearly is not. It’s not even debatable, what they claim and what they’re producing don’t match up, which is a huge problem. I mean there’s still casting flaws in the ports, come on man. . .

When you buy a GYTR head you get exactly when they advertise, a CNC ported head that is significantly different than stock. The Honda head is misleading at best and honestly is crossing into false advertisement territory as far as I’m concerned. You can live the bike all you want and I’d probably agree if I rode it, I’m sure it’s a fantastic bike, but that’s not the debate here at all.
Fair enough
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H4L
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H4L 8/21/2019 4:57pm
8/21/2019 4:57pm
GrapeApe wrote:
It's my understanding from Boomslang's sources that Honda wanted this to happen but Derek couldn't promise anything within 12 months of Loretta Lynn's
I'm Old Skool. I'll believe when I see it...
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SeaClassExpert 8/21/2019 5:37pm
8/21/2019 5:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 5:38pm
kiwifan wrote:
Calling me mentally fragile because I do not agree??? fuck off
I’m calling you mentally fragile because you are very clearly bothered by strangers on the internet speaking ill of your $12,000 dirt bike.

I’m also calling you mentally fragile because people are criticizing one aspect of the bike, not the bike itself but you’re too upset to notice that.
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Jbulz
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Jbulz 8/21/2019 8:31pm
8/21/2019 8:31pm
That looks like what is commonly called "pocket porting" where the casting of the port is blend to the valve seat. Honda also did this on Integra Type-R engines for a few years. They hyped it up a ton, and people expect to see nice smooth shiny ports, but the reality is just the port to valve-seat transition is cleaned up.

But, that's where a large payback for minimal effort is. A lot of the rest is just for looks honestly. So I wouldn't be getting bent up over it!
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Bnagazina 8/21/2019 9:07pm
8/21/2019 9:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2019 9:11pm
Idp57 wrote:
gee you really have a problem dont you, just let it go, we get it you like the bike....or Honda for that matter
kiwifan wrote:
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I...
lol funny guy, yes I race one and know how good it is so naturally I defend it, just like you would for your bike I am sure Smile

kb228 wrote:
Nobody here is knocking the bike itself. The problem lies with hondas advertisements. Does the GYTR head look like the honda? Does a ported head from...
Nobody here is knocking the bike itself. The problem lies with hondas advertisements.

Does the GYTR head look like the honda?
Does a ported head from an engine builder look like the honda?

No. Thats the problem. Not the bike itself.
What was the price for the GYTR head. Something tells me that that head alone would eat into the $2,600 price difference. To get a stock Honda to the level of the works edition would cost about the same, new rims, complete exhaust, special coatings on forks and shock. It adds up. To each their own


EDIT; just looked it up - GYTR. Head starts at $2,000 for normal folk like me! Seems we are comparing apples to oranges.
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slipdog
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slipdog 8/21/2019 9:24pm
8/21/2019 9:24pm
I do agree the Honda PR is a little misleading but I can see the hand porting even from the crappy pictures. "Bowl blending" may have been a more accurate description but it was ported by hand even if minimally...
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