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So I would assume if they do under bankruptcy protection then riders under contract will be standing in line like everyone else? Do they typically pay racer salaries up front or over the term of the contract?
Im not so sure. They mention a 70% market share in Europe numerous times when talking about the off road market. Some of the figures they are blending on road and off road and it’s not always parsed clearly and I’m not going to spend my evening reading the whole report.
Too bad it's not the off-road market unless HD and BMW are going to drop some scooters on us.
The Shop
Beta,TM ,Triumph, Japanese manufacturers. Yes there are winners.
Has anyone asked Elon if he wants a dirt bike company?
Stark and Triumph taking some market share can't have helped, competition is never good for the incumbent.
You are assuming none of them are impacted by a major slowdown in the industry.
Regardless of if the market has taken a turn if KTM is in a position were they could lose market share the other oem’s have an opportunity to capture it. For a company like triumph that has very little it could be an opportunity for them. Esp because they are the most similar to ktm so consumers with preference to ktm may look at triumph.
I believe Triumph may be in a prime position for stealing market share that PMG may leave on the table, reason being is their money is not made with dirtbikes so they would be able to leverage the cost of their manufacturing with the unit price opposite of what PMG has done. Their bread and butter is not tied to their dirt sales. Similar to the Japanese model, Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha are mass producers of other products that supplement their off-road manufacturing. PMG is a dirt first orginization who had larger visions without the capital to get there. I own a KTM so this is not a happy subject for me.
All the factory edition and half year bikes, maybe the Japanese now what they’re doing with their 4 year rotations?
Ok, thanks. Thats not really a screaming deal. I was hoping to get a 350 for the price of a 85.
Judging by some of the responses it seems like it’s not a big deal if the PMG lines faded off but then it dawned on me that this is a predominantly MX crowd so prob a more evenly split of OEM ownership. I race offroad where they own prob 75% of my local market. We have on avg 400 entries a month so that’s a lot of impact. This will sting for sure if it plays out the ugly way.
I think it will have an huge impact on MXGP's too. KTM, Husqvarna and GasGas teams are big part of the GP's and EMX125 Class even bigger part
When does Sexton sign with Triumph?
He should take a year off and sign with Ducati.
He's signing with Blucru
Pit Row
Stop digging, hope this helps
It didn’t help the first tine. Why would it help the second. Damn shame folks are so intent on proving me wrong they are literally blind.
My info comes directly from KTM and I posted a link. What you got?
I guess you are not on this side of the pond but I say with 100% certainty KTM DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR 50% of the off-road 2 wheeler sold here.
And again for those thick as a brick.
in KTM's own words "In North America, one of the most important sales markets for the PIERER Mobility Group, the overall high market volume from the first half of 2022 of around 290,000 newly registered motorcycles was maintained in the first half of 2023. At the same time, the KTM Group was able to expand its market position with a share of 12.3 % in the USA and 16.9 % in the Canadian market (both markets together: 12.9%; first half of 2022 together: 10.6%)."
https://www.pierermobility.com/en/newsroom/eqsfeed/2584089?type=adhoc
This table comes directly from your link, and it unambiguously states that they had 50% off-road market share in North America.
Careful pal, might be hot, you can't be that far from the center of the Earth now.
Unfortunately for you the chart only includes 3 of the Japanese mfg's and is far from the off-road market here. Clearly Warburg profited a tidy sum on this whole shitshow.
You... can't be for real.
Step1. Find an interesting document.
Step 2. Don't really read it because... why bother? Make up random claim
Step 4. When asked about said claim, confidently give link to back it up
Step 5. When provided with evidence that alleged source contradicts made up claim, disavow your own source. Add in some new outlandish claim for good measure.
That's a very interesting thought process. Most people would have found easier to simply acknowledge a mistake but somehow that seems supremely important to you to state that KTM has 20% off-road market share in North America, it's just so random but whatever makes you feel better.
Even if I was making shit up as you like to imply could you not just let it go? Again if you think half the bike being sold here are KTM brands I got nothing more I can say to help you.
"Indeed, since there was no way KTM would have 70% market share anywhere in the world (it's 11% in Europe and 10% in USA), I assumed he meant their sales came from 70% Europe and 20% USA.
But you can't make this up, his own source rubbishes his claim, KTM off-road market share in North America (and also globally) is 50%, not 20%"
Amazing the very chart you are using to discredit me claims 80% for the EU and also discredits you.
can't make this shit up.
Why engage with you ? Fair question, I also ask myself, and most of the time I chose not to. Yet in this thread I was genuinely interested in the numbers you mentioned because it's quite hard to find this kind of data, so I started to have a look and ask some questions. And I'm glad I did because the document you linked was genuinely interesting. That's unfortunate you just did not read it properly.
Then this starts a discussion, that's what this place is for, right? But I must admit it's funny to see you doubling down on imaginary numbers while calling others blind and thick as bricks. Instead of you know, just admitting you got that wrong and moving on.
Yes the source you have used to claim 70% off-road market share for Europe sometimes says 70%, sometimes 80%, not very precise but I didn't give you any flak for it, I'd say it still holds better than your other claim about 20% for North America when the only source you can cite says 50%.
Now I see I'm hurting your feelings so you know, keep on keeping on, I just might call BS from time to time to say hi.
65 and 85 class aswell.
Sorry if I was off a couple percent. I said ABOUT.
Nope, you insisted on 20% instead of 50%, that's not a couple percent difference 🤣
In your own words: "I say with 100% certainty KTM DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR 50% of the off-road 2 wheeler sold here."
When the document you posted to back up this claim says...50%.
But we're running in circles, which is more interesting on a bike than on a forum, this conversation is not interesting to anyone anymore, see you later.
Motorcycles are now dying a slow death.
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