USA team protested Australia

gerg
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10/11/2024 8:15pm

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

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Boomslang
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10/11/2024 9:41pm
gerg wrote:
Am I reading this correctly?Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even...

Am I reading this correctly?

Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even by disqualification?

ando wrote:

Well yes, but for context USA were told they couldn’t do it.  Wording of the rule is not clear.

....and Tomac sti pulled a holeshot..

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Boomslang
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10/11/2024 9:43pm
gerg wrote:

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

It's going to be a long damn pull....2.5 months..geezuz.

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ando
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10/11/2024 10:03pm
gerg wrote:

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

I reckon it’s run its course…

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The Shop

CPR
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10/12/2024 5:00am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2024 5:03am
TAUTOG wrote:
Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th...

Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th. What would you say if AP wiped his gate and Hunter didn't and Hunter slipped while AP got a great jump? It's possible the finishes could switch from 4th and 8th. USA wins. It doesn't matter what you finish in your class it's overall. Hunter did get an 8th in the 1st moto, it's not like he was moving forward and passing a bunch of guys like Jett was.

Hunter had first gate pick, got 4th, AP had second gate pick, so 8th is an amazing jump. Maybe wiping it made it worse 😂

As for moto 1, Hunter had second gate pick and was at the back end of the field after the start ( he was 24th half way through lap 1). He did work his way up through the field to 8th, even with a goggle stop.

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MxAddic
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10/12/2024 5:25am

Rules that are subject to interpretation are as lame as the folks crying about the protest and using that as justification for the infraction. The problem is this rule was cut and dried.

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10/12/2024 8:25am
TAUTOG wrote:
Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th...

Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th. What would you say if AP wiped his gate and Hunter didn't and Hunter slipped while AP got a great jump? It's possible the finishes could switch from 4th and 8th. USA wins. It doesn't matter what you finish in your class it's overall. Hunter did get an 8th in the 1st moto, it's not like he was moving forward and passing a bunch of guys like Jett was.

CPR wrote:
Hunter had first gate pick, got 4th, AP had second gate pick, so 8th is an amazing jump. Maybe wiping it made it worse 😂As for...

Hunter had first gate pick, got 4th, AP had second gate pick, so 8th is an amazing jump. Maybe wiping it made it worse 😂

As for moto 1, Hunter had second gate pick and was at the back end of the field after the start ( he was 24th half way through lap 1). He did work his way up through the field to 8th, even with a goggle stop.

 I said that maybe wiping was a disadvantage because people are going into the what if area and saying what if Hunter had a worse start, or knocked somebody down ,etc .  And I personally have gotten better starts when I had a wet gate at Southwick.    A friend called me out on it and dumped a bottle of water on the pad after he swept it and I told him I've gotten better starts with a wet gate . And I ended up getting a holeshot. It was on a nice sunny day . The other times I got a good start with a wet bate were during mud races and I had started in a puddle. That was when the pads were asphalt , and I had never practiced starts. I went and found a place to practice starts on asphalt after that. 

But having that in the back of my mind that I could not trust the traction as much, helped me . 

 

The thing is at the MXON, people were doing burnouts too so nobody was starting on a totally unprepped grate. And If You listen to Paul in the Renthal reaction podcast. He himse4lf said that even though they had asked for clarification they got bad info or there was a misunderstanding . And that ultimately it was NOT a rule violation with the way the current rule is written. 

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Nighttrain
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10/12/2024 8:49am
gerg wrote:

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

😂,good one.  Well played, Gerg.

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10/12/2024 11:55am
MxAddic wrote:
Rules that are subject to interpretation are as lame as the folks crying about the protest and using that as justification for the infraction. The problem...

Rules that are subject to interpretation are as lame as the folks crying about the protest and using that as justification for the infraction. The problem is this rule was cut and dried.

It was 100% not a clear rule.  If it was Team USA would have sent their riders down to the gate with towels if they knew it was OK. According to Paul P.       OR Hunter and Prado would have been penalized for wiping.  

 

Its not some giant conspiracy to defeat the US team. Its a misunderstanding/miscommunication of a rule that needs to be rewritten.  Way too much that has to be assumed . I mean they only say that You can not touch the gate itself ever, and can not step onto the grate of enter the starting grate area.  Its like they forgot to finish writing the rule and say that was the rule up until You picked the place You were going to start.   The rest of the rule clearly said it was for starts WITHOUT grates.  So why should anybody assume that any of that applies to both , when it clearly states that it is for starts without grates. They could have just added the text "with and" to the " without grates" in and it would mean that the rules apply to both. With it written the way it is , they imply that the rules are only for when there are not any grates that would restrict the use of a "tool" , like a rag.  

 

 I don't blame them for protesting, I wouldn't want to win that way. But if it was a legit violation than they would have just been playing by the rules. But unfortunately they had bad info and or a misunderstanding .  The FIM person either told them incorrectly or misunderstood the question. It seems simple enough that I doubt they spent much time on it after they asked, and got an answer they seemed to be a solid one. I'm sure there were other rules that they also wanted to go over and the moved on like we all should.  

 

 Anything could happen differently if you go down the road of ifs and buts. If Deegan went  he could have had a ride like RV in 2007, IF Jett hadn't   gone for that jump at Hangtown and crashed , he might be undefeated still.   And like Bob Hannah said, "If Your Aunt had balls ,she would be Your uncle".   What happened happened.

 

 I'm just glad that Webb and Tomac stepped up to go and that AP was all in even with his minor injuries and issues he had towards the end of the season. They all rode well and put on an amazing race . Had a super close finish and put in an amazing effort.  

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lumpy790
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10/12/2024 11:59am

So many of the rules are so vague and have to be interpreted by the events referee. 

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rhysthomas
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10/12/2024 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2024 3:26pm

I think its interesting that someone who works for renthal, represents them in the public space (pulp/moto60 appearances et al) would do something like that. Imagine if it stuck and Australia lost the Chamberlain trophy as a result? Doesnt seem like the smartest move, but from what i understand that isn't out of character for him.

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CPR
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10/12/2024 4:51pm
rhysthomas wrote:
I think its interesting that someone who works for renthal, represents them in the public space (pulp/moto60 appearances et al) would do something like that. Imagine...

I think its interesting that someone who works for renthal, represents them in the public space (pulp/moto60 appearances et al) would do something like that. Imagine if it stuck and Australia lost the Chamberlain trophy as a result? Doesnt seem like the smartest move, but from what i understand that isn't out of character for him.

I thought Paul P. sounded like he was trying to justify his actions pretty hard on the Matthes pod.

The really telling comment for me was when he said; “ I don’t know what’s on that rag”, or “ anything could be on that rag”, or words to that effect, referring to the rag Hunter was wiping the grate with. 
Implying that they could be cheating by using a traction compound. Really? You really think they’d be stupid enough to risk that ? That reveals more about how Paul thinks than anything else.

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Bearuno
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10/12/2024 8:05pm

It's simple:

An Official, told the US Team one thing.

Another Official, told Hunter ( the OZ Team?) another thing.

Both , Official 'tellings', it seems. 

So, Hunter did Nothing wrong, after being told it was acceptable to do whatever he did with the grating. And that's what the Jury (if it was part of the judgement) determined.

So, Protest Over and Done with.

One would assume that Any points regarding the start grate, Will be made absolutely clear, next year, and no disparate interpretations of it are possible. 

 

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8tensolutions
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10/12/2024 8:08pm
rhysthomas wrote:
I think its interesting that someone who works for renthal, represents them in the public space (pulp/moto60 appearances et al) would do something like that. Imagine...

I think its interesting that someone who works for renthal, represents them in the public space (pulp/moto60 appearances et al) would do something like that. Imagine if it stuck and Australia lost the Chamberlain trophy as a result? Doesnt seem like the smartest move, but from what i understand that isn't out of character for him.

CPR wrote:
I thought Paul P. sounded like he was trying to justify his actions pretty hard on the Matthes pod.The really telling comment for me was when...

I thought Paul P. sounded like he was trying to justify his actions pretty hard on the Matthes pod.

The really telling comment for me was when he said; “ I don’t know what’s on that rag”, or “ anything could be on that rag”, or words to that effect, referring to the rag Hunter was wiping the grate with. 
Implying that they could be cheating by using a traction compound. Really? You really think they’d be stupid enough to risk that ? That reveals more about how Paul thinks than anything else.

He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a rule he specifically asked about with every team manager present, including Metcalf.  

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MJC
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10/12/2024 9:25pm
He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a...

He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a rule he specifically asked about with every team manager present, including Metcalf.  

hang on, I thought it was just a meeting with US and FIM officials?

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jazza167
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10/12/2024 10:06pm
TAUTOG wrote:
Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th...

Everyone saying "Eli got the hole shot anyway" is missing the fact of AP's vs Hunters start. In perspective Hunter got 4th while AP got 8th. What would you say if AP wiped his gate and Hunter didn't and Hunter slipped while AP got a great jump? It's possible the finishes could switch from 4th and 8th. USA wins. It doesn't matter what you finish in your class it's overall. Hunter did get an 8th in the 1st moto, it's not like he was moving forward and passing a bunch of guys like Jett was.

If and’s and but’s were candy and nuts we’d all have a wonderful Christmas…. The race happened and the us pulled off a VERY respectable second place to the wonder kid & co. I’d be more upset with the Deegs for not fronting up than hunters gate wiping…. Us could have won quite convincingly with a dialled deegs on board. No slight to coop. 

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8tensolutions
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10/12/2024 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/13/2024 6:16am
He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a...

He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a rule he specifically asked about with every team manager present, including Metcalf.  

MJC wrote:

hang on, I thought it was just a meeting with US and FIM officials?

No,  Every team manager(s) was in the meeting according to Paul.

CPR
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10/12/2024 10:44pm
He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a...

He was a top level factory mechanic that learned every detail matters.  He represents the US Team at MXON and saw a direct competitor break a rule he specifically asked about with every team manager present, including Metcalf.  

MJC wrote:

hang on, I thought it was just a meeting with US and FIM officials?

No,  Every team manager(s) was in the meeting according to Paul.

But also according to Paul, he asked about the gate, and didn’t clarify the grate separately. 
Rule clearly says gate, and doesn’t mention grate. 
The R makes all the difference, but either way, still much ado about nothing.

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Tumic
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10/13/2024 6:32am
jazza167 wrote:
If and’s and but’s were candy and nuts we’d all have a wonderful Christmas…. The race happened and the us pulled off a VERY respectable second...

If and’s and but’s were candy and nuts we’d all have a wonderful Christmas…. The race happened and the us pulled off a VERY respectable second place to the wonder kid & co. I’d be more upset with the Deegs for not fronting up than hunters gate wiping…. Us could have won quite convincingly with a dialled deegs on board. No slight to coop. 

Now we just got fuel to keep this burning to A1..

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Crush
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10/13/2024 7:16am
731chopper wrote:

Rule seems pretty clear to me and it was broken. I’m not losing any sleep over it but he broke the rules. 

Literally didn’t.

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731chopper
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10/13/2024 8:39am
If that's the case why not also protest Prado? Is that because he was on a brand ridden by the people that the team manager for...

If that's the case why not also protest Prado? Is that because he was on a brand ridden by the people that the team manager for the US works for?   The way the rule is written it is 100% not clear that  it was a violation . It says nothing about not touching the grate. 

 

I am glad that they protested if they really believed it was a violation. But to me it sound much more like a miscommunication.  And given the way the race went, I would not have wanted to win by winning that Protest.   Is doing a burnout to dry the grate with your tire going to do a much worse job drying it?  I understand that Hunter might have gotten a much worse start if he had not wiped the grate. and all the ifs. 

But in the end of the day, whoever told the US they could not wipe the grate was wrong or there was a misunderstanding.   Anybody reading the rule that says its clear, is biased or making a lot of assumptions.  I really was hoping they would have pulled off a win. They got so close and did everything they could do.  It was not a rule violation according to the FIM, so it really was not  the same as cutting the track. 

I read the rule and it is clear. You can’t touch the gate. Anything attached to the gate is the gate. So which one am I according to you? Biased or making a lot of assumptions?

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10/13/2024 10:00am
If that's the case why not also protest Prado? Is that because he was on a brand ridden by the people that the team manager for...

If that's the case why not also protest Prado? Is that because he was on a brand ridden by the people that the team manager for the US works for?   The way the rule is written it is 100% not clear that  it was a violation . It says nothing about not touching the grate. 

 

I am glad that they protested if they really believed it was a violation. But to me it sound much more like a miscommunication.  And given the way the race went, I would not have wanted to win by winning that Protest.   Is doing a burnout to dry the grate with your tire going to do a much worse job drying it?  I understand that Hunter might have gotten a much worse start if he had not wiped the grate. and all the ifs. 

But in the end of the day, whoever told the US they could not wipe the grate was wrong or there was a misunderstanding.   Anybody reading the rule that says its clear, is biased or making a lot of assumptions.  I really was hoping they would have pulled off a win. They got so close and did everything they could do.  It was not a rule violation according to the FIM, so it really was not  the same as cutting the track. 

731chopper wrote:
I read the rule and it is clear. You can’t touch the gate. Anything attached to the gate is the gate. So which one am I...

I read the rule and it is clear. You can’t touch the gate. Anything attached to the gate is the gate. So which one am I according to you? Biased or making a lot of assumptions?

I guess I assumed you were being serious , I should add Reaching , trolling, arguing for fun? biased and trying to justify Your opinion that the rule was clear? 

 

  Anything attached to the gate is the gate.........   How would You define a connection? From this image ( a photo of the starting gates and grates at Matterley Basin)  it appears that the grate is pinned to the dirt and there is no direct connection to the gate and grate other than dirt.  So every racer should be penalized the second the put their feet onto the grates?  If the rule is so clear, How do you ride across the gate after it falls if You are not allowed to touch it?     

 

 The FIM official's decided that there was not a violation of the rule. They are the ones in charge of deciding when a rule  is not clear. 

Materly starting gate
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731chopper
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10/13/2024 11:28am
I guess I assumed you were being serious , I should add Reaching , trolling, arguing for fun? biased and trying to justify Your opinion that...

I guess I assumed you were being serious , I should add Reaching , trolling, arguing for fun? biased and trying to justify Your opinion that the rule was clear? 

 

  Anything attached to the gate is the gate.........   How would You define a connection? From this image ( a photo of the starting gates and grates at Matterley Basin)  it appears that the grate is pinned to the dirt and there is no direct connection to the gate and grate other than dirt.  So every racer should be penalized the second the put their feet onto the grates?  If the rule is so clear, How do you ride across the gate after it falls if You are not allowed to touch it?     

 

 The FIM official's decided that there was not a violation of the rule. They are the ones in charge of deciding when a rule  is not clear. 

Materly starting gate

So am I reaching, trolling or arguing for fun? 

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Crossup
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10/14/2024 9:31am
THis reaks so much like a true Star move.Can anyone give me the advantage maybe in length or time this infringement would have gained team...

THis reaks so much like a true Star move.

Can anyone give me the advantage maybe in length or time this infringement would have gained team Oz.

USA still salty over 1983 Americas cup loss.

Here's an easy fix. Anything behind the main round steel tube is free to do as you feel. Nothing in this area can be added. E.G starting chemicals / compounds or dirt etc.

Stooping this low is poor. Saying Australia would have done the same is a true cop out, trying to make this woeful protest seem legit.

 

Crossup wrote:
Hahaha...That's the funniest thing i've read in a while. I grew up in Newport RI where the America's Cup was raced up until 1983. I can...

Hahaha...That's the funniest thing i've read in a while. I grew up in Newport RI where the America's Cup was raced up until 1983. I can tell you nobody cares about the America's Cup loss from back then. 🙄

ando wrote:

Couldn’t win that one on the track/race course either 😂

...and still, no one cares.

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MxAddic
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10/14/2024 9:40am

6 pages of crybabies whining about the protest and telling us how terrible we must feel for losing.

 

LMFAO!

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DropBear76
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10/14/2024 9:51am
MxAddic wrote:

6 pages of crybabies whining about the protest and telling us how terrible we must feel for losing.

 

LMFAO!

6 pages of both sides whining here let's be honest. No rule was broken, it was miscommunication and that's that. Anyone else still saying otherwise needs to go for a walk and take a breather. All the raging online achieves precisely fuck all. 

Bring on 2025!

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10/14/2024 12:36pm
I guess I assumed you were being serious , I should add Reaching , trolling, arguing for fun? biased and trying to justify Your opinion that...

I guess I assumed you were being serious , I should add Reaching , trolling, arguing for fun? biased and trying to justify Your opinion that the rule was clear? 

 

  Anything attached to the gate is the gate.........   How would You define a connection? From this image ( a photo of the starting gates and grates at Matterley Basin)  it appears that the grate is pinned to the dirt and there is no direct connection to the gate and grate other than dirt.  So every racer should be penalized the second the put their feet onto the grates?  If the rule is so clear, How do you ride across the gate after it falls if You are not allowed to touch it?     

 

 The FIM official's decided that there was not a violation of the rule. They are the ones in charge of deciding when a rule  is not clear. 

Materly starting gate
731chopper wrote:

So am I reaching, trolling or arguing for fun? 

You tell me.  Could You also explain how the gate and grate are connected to each other?  I really did not intend to call You names like you seem to be trying to get me to.  The only reason there was a protest was because of how UNCLEAR the rule  appears to be .  Even the person that was a part of the US team filing the protest has said this. 

If anything I would say it is clear that Hunter did NOT  break a rule, based on how it is written. 

 

It has very little that describes a start with grates. The section that is specifically for starts without grates  is what makes it confusing. With there being more details on what can and can not be done. So I can see why some assume that some of the section for starts without grates would be the rule when there are grates. Stuff that would go along with the spirit of the rule.  It would make sense if it did not dived the rules into With grates and Without grates.  

 

I can not believe its being made into such a big deal. If the US had won as a result , I could understand the attention its getting. But as a people watcher and person who has been with FIM officials  just chatting.  I can totally see how it could be a miscommunication.  When I spent a week with the Irish team, I felt like I was going crazy.  The Irish guys spoke so fast. I was starting to feel like I was getting sick or something. And then my friends came down and I realized they just spoke way faster.    

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LungButter
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10/14/2024 1:35pm
gerg wrote:

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

Depends how long it takes you Aussies to admit you had to cheat to win.

/s

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gerg
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10/14/2024 2:07pm
gerg wrote:

I wonder if this thread can get us all the way to A1.

LungButter wrote:

Depends how long it takes you Aussies to admit you had to cheat to win.

/s

You guys were fleeced.

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