Posts
577
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
US
Edited Date/Time
10/17/2018 3:00pm
I'm going to build a 250 2-Stroke yet this fall or winter. I'm leaving heavily toward a YZ250, but I'm open to a clean RM250 if I find one.
This will be built for off-road - which really will just consist of an 18" rear wheel and a few things here and there. I'll avoid running a big ugly oversized tank except when I really need it (Lectron should help mileage quite a bit).
To me the Yamaha has more going for it - better quality of parts (hardware, levers, pegs, etc), great motor and most-of-all excellent suspension. I believe the motors are very similar.
The plan is to strip whatever I get down to the frame and make it look like new (because I like to make stuff look like new again).
I don't know much about the Suzuki at all - question is, are they even worth considering? I've never owned Yellow but several buddies have and we all know they have a cult following, and are good. They're dirt-cheap around here too (Yamahas are gaining value, but not enough to really matter in this comparison).
My biggest concern with a Suzuki is suspension and the overall quality - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they have the best rep for build quality.
Post your YZ250 and RM250 and feel free to give me your opinion of either.
This will be built for off-road - which really will just consist of an 18" rear wheel and a few things here and there. I'll avoid running a big ugly oversized tank except when I really need it (Lectron should help mileage quite a bit).
To me the Yamaha has more going for it - better quality of parts (hardware, levers, pegs, etc), great motor and most-of-all excellent suspension. I believe the motors are very similar.
The plan is to strip whatever I get down to the frame and make it look like new (because I like to make stuff look like new again).
I don't know much about the Suzuki at all - question is, are they even worth considering? I've never owned Yellow but several buddies have and we all know they have a cult following, and are good. They're dirt-cheap around here too (Yamahas are gaining value, but not enough to really matter in this comparison).
My biggest concern with a Suzuki is suspension and the overall quality - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they have the best rep for build quality.
Post your YZ250 and RM250 and feel free to give me your opinion of either.
There is a really clean 06 here local for $2200, which prompted more thought toward the Suzuki, but again you make a great point - parts for the YZ, especially geared for an off-road setup will be a lot easier to locate.
The Shop
RM250: The fit and finish is not as good as Yamaha but that doesn't mean the bike was unreliable. I never had any issues with it mechanically. But what bothered me were the shrouds. I'm tall and when I sit up on the seat, my knees are pretty far forward. The RM felt wider to me and the shrouds didn't have enough.....holes (for lack of better term) where I could sort of lock in with my knees. Whenever I gripped the bike with my knees, I felt like I was pushing myself backwards. Also, forks felt better on the track than on the trail.
06 YZ: All was well until I discovered a lot of play in the supposedly perfect SSS forks. At first I thought my steering stem was loose because I could move the fork lugs back and forth. Turned out to be the sliders wiggling around in the outer tubes. I replaced the bushings (old ones looked OK) but the problem was still there. Meanwhile some friends got thumpers and the grass looked greener so the YZ got sold.
07 YZ: Forks was the first thing I checked. They were fine. So far I'm stoked on the bike. The clutch pull is a little stiff but otherwise no complaints.
I think the YZ is hands down the winner. But not because it's such a better bike. It's just a more practical bike. Parts are easy to get. The aluminum frame doesn't age (in appearance) like steel. Bike is still in production. There's a wealth of information online on how to upgrade/fix them up. Here's some stuff I have done to my 07 or am in the process of doing...
* Stiffer spring off of YZ450 (cheap way to keep a Ti spring yet go up in spring rate)
* 2009 YZ450 triple clamps (four position clamps)
* 2010 YZ450 footpegs (not as light as Ti, but they are wider and sit lower)
* Zip-Ty racing oversized tank. Made by IMS to Zip-Ty's specs. Maintains low profile so the seat/tank junction isn't ridiculous
* the swingarm mod is something I'm planning to do. Already have the swingarm, but I still need the axle, wheel and caliper carrier. I like the idea of less unsprung mass.
All these mods are not available for the RM. Or at least not as cheaply. Most of this is just take-offs from newer thumpers. It's a no brainer in my mind.
Love my 06 RM... I've raced both, the YZ is also a great choice!
Whats needed for the swap?
My takeaways: the Yamaha is definitely the better option given how I'll use it. I'm sure both would be fine.
I didn't even know about that Zip-Ty tank - thank you very much for mentioning it. That was one of my major issues with this bike or the RM - I hate the look of a big 3g tank but I know I'll need it for most riding and racing I'll do. But this version of the IMS looks pretty good; definitely better than the regular one.
Good idea on the OEM clamp swap too - I like my bars dead-even with the center point of the fork; if I can't get that with the clamps it comes with I'll do this.
I haven't dug into the swingarm swap and won't worry about it until I get knee-deep into this. Seems like a ton of work for a small payoff.
I had Factory connection do the suspension on both the rm and yz and they both felt similar, with maybe an edge In plushness to the yz. I had them setup for an a level hare scramble rider(me).
Handling wise, the rm would go whoever it was pointed no questions asked, but it was scary at high speed. The yz had a front end push that was really annoying in hard packed conditions, but it was stable I did like the yz in muddy conditions more than the rm. As far as which one was better overall, it really depends on what you are going to do.
From an astetics stand point, I really like the rm. I used Hyde frame guards and they really did a nice job of protecting the frame. I used a clarke oversized tank on it, but I hated it. On the YZ I used a Zip-Ty tank and IMO is the best oversized tank for the Yz.
Engine wise, both were similar, with the rm being a bit freer revving even when both had 13 oz fww. For off-road use I would give the nod to the Yz for it’s smoother power.
With all of the above mentioned, my favorite bike is the cr 250. It’s a combination of both the yz and rm suspension and handling wise , with an engine that is easily tuned to perform just as good as the yz or rm. The kicker is the durability that neither the yz or the rm can match. I already have the engine out of the 17’ yz, while I have yet to go into the bottom end of the cr. I had to replace the transmission in the rm before I could even ride it.
Pit Row
Both are great bikes but I'd go with the YZ for these reasons...
- RM250 clutch is weak compared to the YZ. Easier to make it sqwauck and heat it up and the release point is kind weird compared to the YZ
- YZ parts availability better.
- Prefer the YZ suspension.
If you want the 22.5mm offset, then you need to get the 2010 or newer clamps (off of a 4-stroke).
HOWEVER: Starting in 2010, the top clamp fork tube holes were 54mm (whereas 2-strokes are 56mm). So in order for a 2010+ thumper clamp to work with a 2-stroke, you would need to machine the clamps to open them up to 56mm. Otherwise you would need the thumper forks too (and possibly a front axle, etc....not sure).
I was not comfortable doing this. I don't want to do anything (such as material removal) that could weaken my clamps. So I opted for the 2009 setup with 25mm offset. I'm 220lb and coming off of a 4-stroke, the YZ feels like it turns just fine. I can live with 25mm offset.
More info here: https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1152402-yz250-triple-clamps/
I realize that the steel frames are more compliant. But finding a clean steel frame YZ isn't easy anymore. Most of them are roached out. Plus, according to MXA (I know, I know...) when Yamaha went to the aluminum frame on the YZ, they shaved 7.5 lbs off the bike. That's nothing to sneeze at. They did some stuff in subsequent years to further drop the weight. Considering how light the KTMs are, I want every edge I can get.
https://motocrossactionmag.com/we-test-the-2005-yamaha-yz250/
Here's a pic of a Zip-Ty tank...
More pics with tank... https://dirtbiketest.com/product-tests/zipty-racing-ims-3-2-gallon-tank-yz-125250/#efKRwcH2yH6YUiMt.97
And if you like trick tanks and have unlimited financial resources...there's this...
http://www.xfun.it/en/product/271/Aluminium-Fuel-Tank-for-Yamaha.html
or this: (vlarr racing - Netherlands)
https://www.vitalmx.com/community/pete24,30229/setup,35940
Any room in the budget to just buy a YZ250X and let Yamaha do the off-road conversion work for you?
Post a reply to: 2-Stroke Winter Project: YZ250 vs RM250