Unadilla AMA National – Track cutting during timed practice

GangGreen
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Edited Date/Time 8/16/2021 12:02am
The start is so darn important in AMA Pro Motocross.
Track cutting during timed practice at Unadilla was very blatent by several riders. Duly noted, MX Sports and track workers fixed the problem area before 450cc moto 1 by implanting those large yellow barriers. Savatgy, Ferrandis,Webb, Musquin, and others clearly cut the track on the newly added downhill drop, gaining seconds by missing the ruts in the jump at the bottom.

- I didn't read that there was any punishment yet ?

MX Sports shouldn’t just take away the “fastest lap” because Marvin and Savatgy used it almost every lap. Very unfair to Eli Tomac, who I never once saw cut the track, to be forced into an 11th place gate pick. Yet another reason to hate timed practice. GuyB please don’t censor this thread and block my account.





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KennyT
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8/15/2021 6:53am
I’m not sure on the rules. Are those yellow markers considered “out of bounds” if you go on the other side?
8/15/2021 6:56am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 6:57am
JT$ about to get a bunch of fines from AMA
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Boomslang
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8/15/2021 7:03am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 7:05am
KennyT wrote:
I’m not sure on the rules. Are those yellow markers considered “out of bounds” if you go on the other side?
Look at the second picture above and you can clearly see that the yellow stick is not in line with the previous one.

It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.

With that said I'm sure that officials looked into it and rectified it. Furthermore, I cant see how that can be called "track cutting". Just my opinion GangGreen and no gripe with you asking. Maybe DC will chime in before the topic turns South.
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Richy
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8/15/2021 7:05am
You'd have to assume going outside a track marker is out of bounds, surely?

That said if you are doing it and not being called on it, then it naturally leads to confusion for riders looking to take any advantage they can find in getting a fast time in.

Likewise you can see how people will or would have a problem with it, especially if a competitive advantage is fiound. Not cool.

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The Shop

toroP
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8/15/2021 7:06am
Gaining seconds? How do you know this?
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GangGreen
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8/15/2021 7:32am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 9:30am
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS ( See below )

ToroP stated, “Gaining seconds? How do you know this? RIDER’S NEEDED TO BRAKE WHEN ENTERING THE RUTS WHEN ON THE TRACK. THAT CHEATER LINE WAS HARD AND VERY FAST.


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Boomslang
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8/15/2021 7:52am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 7:55am
I see the last partially burried marker now and agree that the edge was smoother and faster hence the guys taking liberties. It is actually quite a common occurence.

It really comes down to the officials and track crew to keep these things in place and correctly aligned.

Furthermore, there obviously were no protests, hence the lack of cancelled lap times (or maybe there was cancelled laps) and guess the riders were given the benefit of the doubt.

Your pictures show the markers were clearly out of line with one laying flat in the dirt, this can create doubt and opportunities so for everyones peace of mind please PM DC so he can put this to bed.

Ps. There is a difference between exceeding track limits and cutting the course.
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8/15/2021 8:04am
GangGreen wrote:
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” [b] INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS [/b] ( See below ) ToroP...
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS ( See below )

ToroP stated, “Gaining seconds? How do you know this? RIDER’S NEEDED TO BRAKE WHEN ENTERING THE RUTS WHEN ON THE TRACK. THAT CHEATER LINE WAS HARD AND VERY FAST.


You're putting too much time and energy into this.
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Boomslang
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8/15/2021 8:08am
GangGreen wrote:
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” [b] INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS [/b] ( See below ) ToroP...
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS ( See below )

ToroP stated, “Gaining seconds? How do you know this? RIDER’S NEEDED TO BRAKE WHEN ENTERING THE RUTS WHEN ON THE TRACK. THAT CHEATER LINE WAS HARD AND VERY FAST.


You're putting too much time and energy into this.
I know and have humbly wound my neck in. You got any popcorn?
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tek14
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8/15/2021 8:10am
During race Ken jumped sky jump and landed every lap to outside of track markers. Maybe markers are just for advice now?
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PNWRider
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8/15/2021 8:15am
Not exactly the same, but I remember Washougal in 93 when an official put a hay bale in the inside rut at the bottom of the ski jump to encourage another line form. Stanton (on his 500) gave him a dirty look, then proceeded to wheelie onto it and obliterate it with his rear tire. It was glorious.
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mattyhamz2
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8/15/2021 8:20am
I was expecting something much different when I opened this….
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PNWRider
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8/15/2021 8:37am
Boomslang wrote:
I see the last partially burried marker now and agree that the edge was smoother and faster hence the guys taking liberties. It is actually quite...
I see the last partially burried marker now and agree that the edge was smoother and faster hence the guys taking liberties. It is actually quite a common occurence.

It really comes down to the officials and track crew to keep these things in place and correctly aligned.

Furthermore, there obviously were no protests, hence the lack of cancelled lap times (or maybe there was cancelled laps) and guess the riders were given the benefit of the doubt.

Your pictures show the markers were clearly out of line with one laying flat in the dirt, this can create doubt and opportunities so for everyones peace of mind please PM DC so he can put this to bed.

Ps. There is a difference between exceeding track limits and cutting the course.
Yep.

Can’t recall the exact race and riders (one being Chuck Sun maybe?) in the 80’s where someone was able to avoid a big double but stay just inside the markers/bales? Hopefully someone remembers the details.
8/15/2021 8:43am
Didn’t we use to call these lines “crafty” when Pourcel used them?
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8/15/2021 9:01am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 9:02am
So, as someone that has never put any kind of thought into this, are the yellow markers stated in the rulebook as the official edge of the track? If not, then how is the edge of the track determined?
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davis224
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8/15/2021 9:35am
I think it was stated a while back that the markers aren't a hard edge to the track limits, but more of a suggestion up to the discretion of officials. I would hardly call that cutting the track, but just pushing the limits, like at a local race jumping the very edge of a jump where the face loses its lip.
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visser62
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8/15/2021 9:39am
I'm more curious as to whether Swoll got penalized for jumping on the red cross. I really like Swoll, but I'd like to see some consistency from the AMA (a pipe dream, I know).
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GangGreen
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8/15/2021 9:45am
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote, "You're putting too much time and energy into this".

Maybe I am, but today's outcome might have been different had Eli Tomac had 4th pick instead of 11th pick of the gate.
Justin Bogle, Joey Savatgy and Christian Craig most definately fought harder thinking they were faster than Eli Tomac today. Giving my competitor confidence, at work or racing, was never something I was eager to do.


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aeffertz
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8/15/2021 9:45am
So, as someone that has never put any kind of thought into this, are the yellow markers stated in the rulebook as the official edge of...
So, as someone that has never put any kind of thought into this, are the yellow markers stated in the rulebook as the official edge of the track? If not, then how is the edge of the track determined?
They are not the official edge of the track, they are more of a guideline but I don’t know what is considered the edge. Probably left to the eye test if someone starts going way off the marked path.

This is within the rules, a thread like this happens once a year.
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aeffertz
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8/15/2021 9:50am Edited Date/Time 8/15/2021 9:55am
Wait, you even called Marvin crafty for this a few years ago! What made you change your mind? Grinning



I’m starting to see a reoccurring theme looking back through these old threads though!



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gt80rider
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8/15/2021 9:51am
GangGreen wrote:
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” [b] INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS [/b] ( See below ) ToroP...
Boomslang stated, “It has been planted further onto the track than the rest.” INCORRECT, RIDER’S RAN OVER SEVERAL MARKERS ( See below )

ToroP stated, “Gaining seconds? How do you know this? RIDER’S NEEDED TO BRAKE WHEN ENTERING THE RUTS WHEN ON THE TRACK. THAT CHEATER LINE WAS HARD AND VERY FAST.


I'm going with maybe .1 of a sec..... nowhere near "seconds"... eggaerate much??
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DonM
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8/15/2021 10:13am
GangGreen wrote:
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote, "You're putting too much time and energy into this". Maybe I am, but today's outcome might have been different had Eli Tomac had 4th...
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote, "You're putting too much time and energy into this".

Maybe I am, but today's outcome might have been different had Eli Tomac had 4th pick instead of 11th pick of the gate.
Justin Bogle, Joey Savatgy and Christian Craig most definately fought harder thinking they were faster than Eli Tomac today. Giving my competitor confidence, at work or racing, was never something I was eager to do.


Eli had 3rd pick at the gate for the 2nd moto….You are taking this a bit far…
8
Johnny Ringo
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8/15/2021 12:52pm
aeffertz wrote:
Wait, you even called Marvin crafty for this a few years ago! What made you change your mind? :lol: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/08/15/505774/s1200_BDE7DE3A_0376_4C86_9FFE_BBD498F1E134.jpg[/img] I’m starting to see a reoccurring...
Wait, you even called Marvin crafty for this a few years ago! What made you change your mind? Grinning



I’m starting to see a reoccurring theme looking back through these old threads though!



Hahahhahaha EXPOSED
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yak651
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8/15/2021 1:30pm
GangGreen wrote:
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote, "You're putting too much time and energy into this". Maybe I am, but today's outcome might have been different had Eli Tomac had 4th...
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote, "You're putting too much time and energy into this".

Maybe I am, but today's outcome might have been different had Eli Tomac had 4th pick instead of 11th pick of the gate.
Justin Bogle, Joey Savatgy and Christian Craig most definately fought harder thinking they were faster than Eli Tomac today. Giving my competitor confidence, at work or racing, was never something I was eager to do.


Wow, you’re crazy….if anything they should be given a time bonus as they were riding a longer track…
1
PNWRider
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8/15/2021 2:38pm
Eli wasn’t doing squat no matter where he started.
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