Hondas traction control wow

dv12.com
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9/23/2024 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 9/23/2024 7:20pm
Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're...

Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

Would you attribute that to his just flat out refusal to lose if there was any way to win?

Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever win a championship. It was close in SX with Chad though who won maybe the last 6? RC was an absolute machine. In his career, he only had the best bike for 1 of his championships, the 2004 Nationals on the CRF450. The rest of them, he beat everyone and the best bike. On his KX125 days, Windham's or Factory Yamaha 125s were better. In his KX250/RM250 days, the Yamahas were better. In his RMZ450 days, well, a lot of bike were better. That bike was a pig. The Yamaha, Honda and Kawi were better. SX/MX is 80% rider, 20% bike. When your 80% is head and shoulders better than the other riders, the 20% of the bike doesn't matter much. Back to the original topic, Eli's 80% rider part isn't as good as Jett's 80% and his 20% bike part is even farther than Jett's bike so you get what you saw this season, if what i'm saying makes sense...

35
1
kpiper
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AZ US
9/23/2024 7:24pm
Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're...

Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

Would you attribute that to his just flat out refusal to lose if there was any way to win?

dv12.com wrote:
Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever...

Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever win a championship. It was close in SX with Chad though who won maybe the last 6? RC was an absolute machine. In his career, he only had the best bike for 1 of his championships, the 2004 Nationals on the CRF450. The rest of them, he beat everyone and the best bike. On his KX125 days, Windham's or Factory Yamaha 125s were better. In his KX250/RM250 days, the Yamahas were better. In his RMZ450 days, well, a lot of bike were better. That bike was a pig. The Yamaha, Honda and Kawi were better. SX/MX is 80% rider, 20% bike. When your 80% is head and shoulders better than the other riders, the 20% of the bike doesn't matter much. Back to the original topic, Eli's 80% rider part isn't as good as Jett's 80% and his 20% bike part is even farther than Jett's bike so you get what you saw this season, if what i'm saying makes sense...

Great info, thanks. But why would Eli do that? He can have any setup he wants.

3
9/23/2024 7:48pm
Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're...

Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

Would you attribute that to his just flat out refusal to lose if there was any way to win?

dv12.com wrote:
Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever...

Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever win a championship. It was close in SX with Chad though who won maybe the last 6? RC was an absolute machine. In his career, he only had the best bike for 1 of his championships, the 2004 Nationals on the CRF450. The rest of them, he beat everyone and the best bike. On his KX125 days, Windham's or Factory Yamaha 125s were better. In his KX250/RM250 days, the Yamahas were better. In his RMZ450 days, well, a lot of bike were better. That bike was a pig. The Yamaha, Honda and Kawi were better. SX/MX is 80% rider, 20% bike. When your 80% is head and shoulders better than the other riders, the 20% of the bike doesn't matter much. Back to the original topic, Eli's 80% rider part isn't as good as Jett's 80% and his 20% bike part is even farther than Jett's bike so you get what you saw this season, if what i'm saying makes sense...

It does make sense, I just reverted back to RC always giving Stewart to credit of being a better rider than himself. I guess when you look at it more closely you see what you're saying...he made up for it in the entire series, not in a single race.

I'm a diehard Tomac fan, but what Jett did to him at the end of moto 1 Saturday was a thing of beauty. I guess that's just proving what you're saying, even though I my heart doesn't want to admit it just yet!

Am I way off in saying Jett might have to deal with imperfections in bike setup for a specific track, but since his setup is so neutral he'll never have to deal with a MAJOR setup issue no matter what the track condition is?

1
OldTech
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Location
Decatur , AL US
9/24/2024 5:03am
Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're...

Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

Would you attribute that to his just flat out refusal to lose if there was any way to win?

dv12.com wrote:
Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever...

Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever win a championship. It was close in SX with Chad though who won maybe the last 6? RC was an absolute machine. In his career, he only had the best bike for 1 of his championships, the 2004 Nationals on the CRF450. The rest of them, he beat everyone and the best bike. On his KX125 days, Windham's or Factory Yamaha 125s were better. In his KX250/RM250 days, the Yamahas were better. In his RMZ450 days, well, a lot of bike were better. That bike was a pig. The Yamaha, Honda and Kawi were better. SX/MX is 80% rider, 20% bike. When your 80% is head and shoulders better than the other riders, the 20% of the bike doesn't matter much. Back to the original topic, Eli's 80% rider part isn't as good as Jett's 80% and his 20% bike part is even farther than Jett's bike so you get what you saw this season, if what i'm saying makes sense...

kpiper wrote:

Great info, thanks. But why would Eli do that? He can have any setup he wants.

In my humble opinion, Eli likes to steer the bike with the rear tire under power, lots of it. and the rest is for smashing into things while going full speed.

1

The Shop

scootch
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Fort Worth, TX US
9/24/2024 9:03am

Thanks for the incredible insight DV! 

Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly the greatest rider of all time, it's wild to hear and we are definitely seeing it. I just hope Tomac and Yamaha can find something and take the fight to Jett next year. Tomac seems hungry and it would be incredible to see him as the best version of himself in his final year. That experience has to count for something right? Talk about a capstone to his legacy if we can beat the unbeatable kid and notch one for the old guys as he calls it a career. We will see..

On another note, 2025 outdoors is going to be WILD. Jett, Tomac, Sexton, Prado the 2x Champ, Hunter and Deegan possibly bumping up. If everyone's healthy it could be one of the most epic title fights we've ever seen. Or you know.. Jett could just wax everyone and further stamp his name as the greatest rider of all time. I'm excited for next year!

4
2
Tumic
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Sundsvall SE
9/24/2024 9:23am
scootch wrote:
Thanks for the incredible insight DV! Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly...

Thanks for the incredible insight DV! 

Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly the greatest rider of all time, it's wild to hear and we are definitely seeing it. I just hope Tomac and Yamaha can find something and take the fight to Jett next year. Tomac seems hungry and it would be incredible to see him as the best version of himself in his final year. That experience has to count for something right? Talk about a capstone to his legacy if we can beat the unbeatable kid and notch one for the old guys as he calls it a career. We will see..

On another note, 2025 outdoors is going to be WILD. Jett, Tomac, Sexton, Prado the 2x Champ, Hunter and Deegan possibly bumping up. If everyone's healthy it could be one of the most epic title fights we've ever seen. Or you know.. Jett could just wax everyone and further stamp his name as the greatest rider of all time. I'm excited for next year!

Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.

Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that he thought that he did, like he knew that he performed at his top.

Yet he got passed in a demoralizing way two times while leading, and other motos could not keep up. The half empty glare in his eyes in the post race interviews after Vegas told me that he realized that his current best won’t be enough and at 32 years old, you won’t get much better than what you are.

I get it that people have a soft spot for Eli and want him to do good his last season, but i don’t see it that he will beat Jett straight up over a season. 

Eli used to be able to break his competiotion and pull away late in the motos, now he got passed and gapped by 3 seconds on one lap late in the first moto. 

i think he should be happy with a top 3 result in the series in both SX and MX next year and wear his head high on that. 

Just like Cairoli in his late days, Elis work now is more or less to maintain the speed and fitness he had when he was his best, but just like Antonio got to face a Herlings and get surpassed by him, i belive that Tomac have been surpassed by the brothers and Sexton now. 

And Eli is not kind to his body riding the way he does, so he use up way more energy then some of his competitors, and that’s a bad combo when father time are janking your leg. 

 

7
4
9/24/2024 10:02am

Wasn't Ricky's '06 RMZ a full on works bike because of that funky AMA rule? 

scootch
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9/24/2024 10:33am Edited Date/Time 9/24/2024 10:35am
Tumic wrote:
Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that...

Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.

Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that he thought that he did, like he knew that he performed at his top.

Yet he got passed in a demoralizing way two times while leading, and other motos could not keep up. The half empty glare in his eyes in the post race interviews after Vegas told me that he realized that his current best won’t be enough and at 32 years old, you won’t get much better than what you are.

I get it that people have a soft spot for Eli and want him to do good his last season, but i don’t see it that he will beat Jett straight up over a season. 

Eli used to be able to break his competiotion and pull away late in the motos, now he got passed and gapped by 3 seconds on one lap late in the first moto. 

i think he should be happy with a top 3 result in the series in both SX and MX next year and wear his head high on that. 

Just like Cairoli in his late days, Elis work now is more or less to maintain the speed and fitness he had when he was his best, but just like Antonio got to face a Herlings and get surpassed by him, i belive that Tomac have been surpassed by the brothers and Sexton now. 

And Eli is not kind to his body riding the way he does, so he use up way more energy then some of his competitors, and that’s a bad combo when father time are janking your leg. 

 

Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the achilles injury too. Yes Jett had the same thumb injury and bounced back like nothing ever happened, but a 21yr old body heals differently than a 32yr old body. I think Tomac is still getting up to speed, and if that is the case, he's gotta be happy with where he's at.. He's hungry for more gate drops (WSX and MXON) and knows he needs them to be ready for 2025. All I'm saying is I'm not writing Tomac off just yet.

5
1
Tumic
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Sundsvall SE
9/24/2024 10:57am
scootch wrote:
Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the...

Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the achilles injury too. Yes Jett had the same thumb injury and bounced back like nothing ever happened, but a 21yr old body heals differently than a 32yr old body. I think Tomac is still getting up to speed, and if that is the case, he's gotta be happy with where he's at.. He's hungry for more gate drops (WSX and MXON) and knows he needs them to be ready for 2025. All I'm saying is I'm not writing Tomac off just yet.

And so are you to yours 👌🏻

i just feel that people might have set their hopes a bit high regarding Tomacs future, but we will see in a couple of months.

If you compare Eli to Webb, Roczen, Anderson and the other guys of his own generation and remove Sexton, and the Lawrence brothers. The talking point would have been how superior ”beast mode” Eli were at the SMX races.
 

5
3
9/24/2024 2:26pm
scootch wrote:
Thanks for the incredible insight DV! Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly...

Thanks for the incredible insight DV! 

Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly the greatest rider of all time, it's wild to hear and we are definitely seeing it. I just hope Tomac and Yamaha can find something and take the fight to Jett next year. Tomac seems hungry and it would be incredible to see him as the best version of himself in his final year. That experience has to count for something right? Talk about a capstone to his legacy if we can beat the unbeatable kid and notch one for the old guys as he calls it a career. We will see..

On another note, 2025 outdoors is going to be WILD. Jett, Tomac, Sexton, Prado the 2x Champ, Hunter and Deegan possibly bumping up. If everyone's healthy it could be one of the most epic title fights we've ever seen. Or you know.. Jett could just wax everyone and further stamp his name as the greatest rider of all time. I'm excited for next year!

Tumic wrote:
Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that...

Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.

Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that he thought that he did, like he knew that he performed at his top.

Yet he got passed in a demoralizing way two times while leading, and other motos could not keep up. The half empty glare in his eyes in the post race interviews after Vegas told me that he realized that his current best won’t be enough and at 32 years old, you won’t get much better than what you are.

I get it that people have a soft spot for Eli and want him to do good his last season, but i don’t see it that he will beat Jett straight up over a season. 

Eli used to be able to break his competiotion and pull away late in the motos, now he got passed and gapped by 3 seconds on one lap late in the first moto. 

i think he should be happy with a top 3 result in the series in both SX and MX next year and wear his head high on that. 

Just like Cairoli in his late days, Elis work now is more or less to maintain the speed and fitness he had when he was his best, but just like Antonio got to face a Herlings and get surpassed by him, i belive that Tomac have been surpassed by the brothers and Sexton now. 

And Eli is not kind to his body riding the way he does, so he use up way more energy then some of his competitors, and that’s a bad combo when father time are janking your leg. 

 

I have more faith in Eli than I do in Sexton to pressure Jett. Chase might have more top end speed than Eli at this point but he’s also a head case who makes a ton of unforced errors. Eli isn’t afraid to race Jett, even if he’ll likely come up short. Also I just love Eli

5
2
deanwhite51
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Sydney AU
9/24/2024 3:42pm
Gravel wrote:

Another brand. 

With Hondas history of dropping-losing their top guys, the brothers will likely be on a different brand by 27-28. 

wrc777 wrote:

Honda usually waits until a guy is at least 26-27 before dropping them. Jett has a few years before he is that old. 

Gravel wrote:
You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them...

You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them out before then. The way Jett is performing now seems sustainable for 7-8 more years, he doesn’t ride on the edge like a lot of others have.. I’m sure Honda COULD pay them, but in the past they seem to find a “reason” to push top guys out when they’re expensive to keep. It’s a business..

Lars wont let it happen. He is the best change to happen at Honda in a long time. 
 

3
1
RichieW13
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Thousand Oaks, CA US
9/24/2024 3:42pm
And RC had that ACL issue and that used to be  worse than it is now. They thought he would not be the same rider after...

And RC had that ACL issue and that used to be  worse than it is now. They thought he would not be the same rider after the surgery. 

 

Kawasaki has more of a history of letting Top guys go than Honda has. In my recent memory anyway.

RC and Stew  left .   

 

MC left because of the bike. 

Sexton left because he wanted to. At the time he was not loving the bikes and I'm sure being a team mate with Jett and Hunter might have had something to do with it too. 

Roczen  left after some contract things. But at that time I would argue that Sexton was trending to be better than him most days, or very close in speed. Plus they had the Lawrence brothers.  Imagine if they still had Sexton ,Kenny and the brothers! That would be a wild team. 

Would Sexton have been able to stay at Honda if he wanted to?   Would they have had both Lawrences and Sexton riding 450's this year?  Or would Hunter have been odd man out?

1
OldTech
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Decatur , AL US
9/24/2024 4:05pm
And RC had that ACL issue and that used to be  worse than it is now. They thought he would not be the same rider after...

And RC had that ACL issue and that used to be  worse than it is now. They thought he would not be the same rider after the surgery. 

 

Kawasaki has more of a history of letting Top guys go than Honda has. In my recent memory anyway.

RC and Stew  left .   

 

MC left because of the bike. 

Sexton left because he wanted to. At the time he was not loving the bikes and I'm sure being a team mate with Jett and Hunter might have had something to do with it too. 

Roczen  left after some contract things. But at that time I would argue that Sexton was trending to be better than him most days, or very close in speed. Plus they had the Lawrence brothers.  Imagine if they still had Sexton ,Kenny and the brothers! That would be a wild team. 

RichieW13 wrote:
Would Sexton have been able to stay at Honda if he wanted to?   Would they have had both Lawrences and Sexton riding 450's this year...

Would Sexton have been able to stay at Honda if he wanted to?   Would they have had both Lawrences and Sexton riding 450's this year?  Or would Hunter have been odd man out?

I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on the wall. The brothers were coming and he HAD to find a different deal, tough spot to be.

Tumic
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2262
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Sundsvall SE
9/25/2024 2:02am
OldTech wrote:
I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on...

I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on the wall. The brothers were coming and he HAD to find a different deal, tough spot to be.

He could have stayed at Honda. He would have been chosen over Hunter on a 450 but he wanted to move away and be the no:1 guy on a team.

And that was probably a smart move. He had issiues on the Honda and still has it on the KTM but now he don’t have to get beat by his team mate on the same bike every time they are on track.

The outdoors 23 season was not kind to Sexton and imagine having that continue for years and years. Hearing how he just left the last SMX round, not saying goodbye to the team or don’t answer Lars calls the week after tell me that he would not have been better off staying at Honda.

1
joshd
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400
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Location
Lucedale, MS US
9/25/2024 2:57am
OldTech wrote:
I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on...

I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on the wall. The brothers were coming and he HAD to find a different deal, tough spot to be.

Tumic wrote:
He could have stayed at Honda. He would have been chosen over Hunter on a 450 but he wanted to move away and be the no:1...

He could have stayed at Honda. He would have been chosen over Hunter on a 450 but he wanted to move away and be the no:1 guy on a team.

And that was probably a smart move. He had issiues on the Honda and still has it on the KTM but now he don’t have to get beat by his team mate on the same bike every time they are on track.

The outdoors 23 season was not kind to Sexton and imagine having that continue for years and years. Hearing how he just left the last SMX round, not saying goodbye to the team or don’t answer Lars calls the week after tell me that he would not have been better off staying at Honda.

Where did you hear Chase did that?

1
1
Mavetism
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3522
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Location
Hannover DE
9/25/2024 3:16am
OldTech wrote:
I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on...

I believe he loved everything about where he was, except for the chassis. the team tried to help make it better but the writing was on the wall. The brothers were coming and he HAD to find a different deal, tough spot to be.

Tumic wrote:
He could have stayed at Honda. He would have been chosen over Hunter on a 450 but he wanted to move away and be the no:1...

He could have stayed at Honda. He would have been chosen over Hunter on a 450 but he wanted to move away and be the no:1 guy on a team.

And that was probably a smart move. He had issiues on the Honda and still has it on the KTM but now he don’t have to get beat by his team mate on the same bike every time they are on track.

The outdoors 23 season was not kind to Sexton and imagine having that continue for years and years. Hearing how he just left the last SMX round, not saying goodbye to the team or don’t answer Lars calls the week after tell me that he would not have been better off staying at Honda.

joshd wrote:

Where did you hear Chase did that?

Gypsy Tales interview with Lars, he basically said that by the time they got to back to the truck (after the final SMX race last year), Chase was already gone. I don't remember every detail though, it's been a couple months. There are clips on youtube though.

3
Tumic
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Sundsvall SE
9/25/2024 3:33am
joshd wrote:

Where did you hear Chase did that?

As Mavetism it was on the gypsy episode with Lars.

I think it was a really shitty look/move on Sextons side. He won a SX title with them, they were willing to send him to Des Nations etc and then he just went off like that.

And i don’t take Lars for a person that would sit on a podcast and lie about it. He is the classiest team manager by far out there.

And that whole thing speaks volumes about how sour Chase had become under that Honda tent. But this is nothing the ”regular” media has brought up, just Lars saying it on gypsy.

4
1
9/25/2024 3:45am
scootch wrote:
Thanks for the incredible insight DV! Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly...

Thanks for the incredible insight DV! 

Man, when all the elite and experienced minds of the sport are all saying the same thing.. that Jett is possibly the greatest rider of all time, it's wild to hear and we are definitely seeing it. I just hope Tomac and Yamaha can find something and take the fight to Jett next year. Tomac seems hungry and it would be incredible to see him as the best version of himself in his final year. That experience has to count for something right? Talk about a capstone to his legacy if we can beat the unbeatable kid and notch one for the old guys as he calls it a career. We will see..

On another note, 2025 outdoors is going to be WILD. Jett, Tomac, Sexton, Prado the 2x Champ, Hunter and Deegan possibly bumping up. If everyone's healthy it could be one of the most epic title fights we've ever seen. Or you know.. Jett could just wax everyone and further stamp his name as the greatest rider of all time. I'm excited for next year!

Tumic wrote:
Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that...

Look at the details and you could expect the last part you wrote.

Eli rode great theese rounds, and you could see it in his eyes that he thought that he did, like he knew that he performed at his top.

Yet he got passed in a demoralizing way two times while leading, and other motos could not keep up. The half empty glare in his eyes in the post race interviews after Vegas told me that he realized that his current best won’t be enough and at 32 years old, you won’t get much better than what you are.

I get it that people have a soft spot for Eli and want him to do good his last season, but i don’t see it that he will beat Jett straight up over a season. 

Eli used to be able to break his competiotion and pull away late in the motos, now he got passed and gapped by 3 seconds on one lap late in the first moto. 

i think he should be happy with a top 3 result in the series in both SX and MX next year and wear his head high on that. 

Just like Cairoli in his late days, Elis work now is more or less to maintain the speed and fitness he had when he was his best, but just like Antonio got to face a Herlings and get surpassed by him, i belive that Tomac have been surpassed by the brothers and Sexton now. 

And Eli is not kind to his body riding the way he does, so he use up way more energy then some of his competitors, and that’s a bad combo when father time are janking your leg. 

 

You may be right. 

I don't feel it's worth putting much weight into 2024 SMX results when talking 2025 MX for the following reasons...

1. It's SMX, not MX.

2. Jett is on a 2025 that was battle tested by his clone. Eli came back on a 2024 with no new Eli data. He will have a better YZ come May next year.

3. As someone pointed out, it'll take longer for him to bounce back and get up to full speed than it would Jett . That especially applies the nervous system when it comes to reaction times and decision making. We're talking tenths of a lap here.

I have to believe Eli and his team are more than capable of maintaining a useful perspective around these results and using the SMX data to improve (the half empty glare was him already absorbing and analyzing the puzzle that is in front of him). 

It sure seems like beast mode is mostly default mode now. That's gotta be worth something. 

Let's simply hope we get to see it play out.

2
7
9/25/2024 4:11am
scootch wrote:
Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the...

Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the achilles injury too. Yes Jett had the same thumb injury and bounced back like nothing ever happened, but a 21yr old body heals differently than a 32yr old body. I think Tomac is still getting up to speed, and if that is the case, he's gotta be happy with where he's at.. He's hungry for more gate drops (WSX and MXON) and knows he needs them to be ready for 2025. All I'm saying is I'm not writing Tomac off just yet.

Tumic wrote:
And so are you to yours 👌🏻i just feel that people might have set their hopes a bit high regarding Tomacs future, but we will see...

And so are you to yours 👌🏻

i just feel that people might have set their hopes a bit high regarding Tomacs future, but we will see in a couple of months.

If you compare Eli to Webb, Roczen, Anderson and the other guys of his own generation and remove Sexton, and the Lawrence brothers. The talking point would have been how superior ”beast mode” Eli were at the SMX races.
 

Everyone brings up Eli "getting back up to speed." Which is true after his injuries last year. They gloss over that Jett is still getting better. We haven't even seen his final form yet. 

5
CrashMaster
Posts
801
Joined
10/4/2010
Location
Gaithersburg, MD US
9/25/2024 4:30am

I just wish they would get rid of the grates and ban starting devices on the front forks. Bring back the art of starting.

13
1
Gravel
Posts
1316
Joined
2/22/2014
Location
Ridgecrest, CA US
9/25/2024 6:06am
wrc777 wrote:

Honda usually waits until a guy is at least 26-27 before dropping them. Jett has a few years before he is that old. 

Gravel wrote:
You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them...

You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them out before then. The way Jett is performing now seems sustainable for 7-8 more years, he doesn’t ride on the edge like a lot of others have.. I’m sure Honda COULD pay them, but in the past they seem to find a “reason” to push top guys out when they’re expensive to keep. It’s a business..

Lars wont let it happen. He is the best change to happen at Honda in a long time. 
 

Totally agree about Lars, he looks like the most focused TM in moto. He seems to understand what riders need, and what they don’t need, better than anyone else. 

But.. He works for a giant corporation and there will be bean counters in the budgeting process. That’s the biggest challenge for him, accountants are pretty much emotionless number bots who don’t see the problem with making cuts in a program to better their balance sheets. I truly hope you’re right and I’m wrong, because your version of Hondas future will make for better racing!

1
joshd
Posts
400
Joined
3/17/2016
Location
Lucedale, MS US
9/25/2024 6:10am
joshd wrote:

Where did you hear Chase did that?

Tumic wrote:
As Mavetism it was on the gypsy episode with Lars.I think it was a really shitty look/move on Sextons side. He won a SX title with...

As Mavetism it was on the gypsy episode with Lars.

I think it was a really shitty look/move on Sextons side. He won a SX title with them, they were willing to send him to Des Nations etc and then he just went off like that.

And i don’t take Lars for a person that would sit on a podcast and lie about it. He is the classiest team manager by far out there.

And that whole thing speaks volumes about how sour Chase had become under that Honda tent. But this is nothing the ”regular” media has brought up, just Lars saying it on gypsy.

Well that is unfortunate. Not a good look for Chase. 

2
avidchimp
Posts
5008
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
9/25/2024 6:55am
Gravel wrote:
You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them...

You’re right, but I think the cost of keeping the brothers, both base salary and the constant win bonuses, will probably drive Honda to push them out before then. The way Jett is performing now seems sustainable for 7-8 more years, he doesn’t ride on the edge like a lot of others have.. I’m sure Honda COULD pay them, but in the past they seem to find a “reason” to push top guys out when they’re expensive to keep. It’s a business..

Lars wont let it happen. He is the best change to happen at Honda in a long time. 
 

Gravel wrote:
Totally agree about Lars, he looks like the most focused TM in moto. He seems to understand what riders need, and what they don’t need, better...

Totally agree about Lars, he looks like the most focused TM in moto. He seems to understand what riders need, and what they don’t need, better than anyone else. 

But.. He works for a giant corporation and there will be bean counters in the budgeting process. That’s the biggest challenge for him, accountants are pretty much emotionless number bots who don’t see the problem with making cuts in a program to better their balance sheets. I truly hope you’re right and I’m wrong, because your version of Hondas future will make for better racing!

Also, Lars is still ridiculously good on a motorcycle, so things translate easier for him as he can get on it and feel what they feel.

9/25/2024 7:50am
scootch wrote:
Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the...

Hey man you are entitled to your opinion and that's cool. People forget he's fresh off that thumb injury and arguably the lingering affects of the achilles injury too. Yes Jett had the same thumb injury and bounced back like nothing ever happened, but a 21yr old body heals differently than a 32yr old body. I think Tomac is still getting up to speed, and if that is the case, he's gotta be happy with where he's at.. He's hungry for more gate drops (WSX and MXON) and knows he needs them to be ready for 2025. All I'm saying is I'm not writing Tomac off just yet.

Tumic wrote:
And so are you to yours 👌🏻i just feel that people might have set their hopes a bit high regarding Tomacs future, but we will see...

And so are you to yours 👌🏻

i just feel that people might have set their hopes a bit high regarding Tomacs future, but we will see in a couple of months.

If you compare Eli to Webb, Roczen, Anderson and the other guys of his own generation and remove Sexton, and the Lawrence brothers. The talking point would have been how superior ”beast mode” Eli were at the SMX races.
 

Everyone brings up Eli "getting back up to speed." Which is true after his injuries last year. They gloss over that Jett is still getting better...

Everyone brings up Eli "getting back up to speed." Which is true after his injuries last year. They gloss over that Jett is still getting better. We haven't even seen his final form yet. 

As a huge Tomac fan I have to admit you're probably right. I just want to enjoy the fact we get to see those two race each other all year in 2025. Will Tomac get a title? Probably not, but that's just how the sport goes. It's the natural progression of things. 

Kawboy14!
Posts
377
Joined
5/15/2021
Location
Georgetown, TX US
9/25/2024 7:52am

1) teams are paid out of a “Marketing Budget” not based on how many bikes are sold!

2) Honda is HUGE and has a HUGE marketing budget, cars, side by sides, bikes, lawn mowers, generators are all purchased because of marketing thru all of their racing efforts.

3) moto is chicken scratch to what they spent on auto racing worldwide in an effort to market their overall products.


4) they can afford anything they want to afford!

1
3
mxtech1
Posts
1962
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL US
9/25/2024 9:04am

Honda certainly has something figured out in the way that they use the ECU to manage how the engine torque is applied to the rear wheel. It seems like no matter what surface they are racing on, the bike is always just driving forward in a controlled and predictable way. When you combine that with Jett’s unique ability to stay neutral on the bike and leverage his body to keep the suspension free to move, it’s a tough combination to beat. 

4
9/25/2024 9:27am
joshd wrote:

Where did you hear Chase did that?

Tumic wrote:
As Mavetism it was on the gypsy episode with Lars.I think it was a really shitty look/move on Sextons side. He won a SX title with...

As Mavetism it was on the gypsy episode with Lars.

I think it was a really shitty look/move on Sextons side. He won a SX title with them, they were willing to send him to Des Nations etc and then he just went off like that.

And i don’t take Lars for a person that would sit on a podcast and lie about it. He is the classiest team manager by far out there.

And that whole thing speaks volumes about how sour Chase had become under that Honda tent. But this is nothing the ”regular” media has brought up, just Lars saying it on gypsy.

joshd wrote:

Well that is unfortunate. Not a good look for Chase. 

I was surprised to hear that when the podcast came out. Seems out of character for him. Although if his relationship with KTM has already soured he might just be difficult to work with

1
1
RichieW13
Posts
1922
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
9/25/2024 9:52am
Gravel wrote:
Totally agree about Lars, he looks like the most focused TM in moto. He seems to understand what riders need, and what they don’t need, better...

Totally agree about Lars, he looks like the most focused TM in moto. He seems to understand what riders need, and what they don’t need, better than anyone else. 

But.. He works for a giant corporation and there will be bean counters in the budgeting process. That’s the biggest challenge for him, accountants are pretty much emotionless number bots who don’t see the problem with making cuts in a program to better their balance sheets. I truly hope you’re right and I’m wrong, because your version of Hondas future will make for better racing!

Don't blame the accountants!  They just report the facts.  It's usually a CEO or Board of Directors who make the decisions about where money is spent.

3
Lineman25
Posts
88
Joined
4/7/2019
Location
Moncks Corner, SC US
9/25/2024 4:21pm
Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're...

Respectful question, DV - how would you explain RC's setup all those years of championships? His bike was far from neutral, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

Would you attribute that to his just flat out refusal to lose if there was any way to win?

dv12.com wrote:
Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever...

Very easy. He was better than everyone else. His 03 CR250 bike set up is to this day, in my opinion, the worst bike to ever win a championship. It was close in SX with Chad though who won maybe the last 6? RC was an absolute machine. In his career, he only had the best bike for 1 of his championships, the 2004 Nationals on the CRF450. The rest of them, he beat everyone and the best bike. On his KX125 days, Windham's or Factory Yamaha 125s were better. In his KX250/RM250 days, the Yamahas were better. In his RMZ450 days, well, a lot of bike were better. That bike was a pig. The Yamaha, Honda and Kawi were better. SX/MX is 80% rider, 20% bike. When your 80% is head and shoulders better than the other riders, the 20% of the bike doesn't matter much. Back to the original topic, Eli's 80% rider part isn't as good as Jett's 80% and his 20% bike part is even farther than Jett's bike so you get what you saw this season, if what i'm saying makes sense...

What do you think Eli is searching for by running his bike the way he does? I don’t remember his Kawi setup or 22 Yamaha being that bad. Also do you think he is running the scoop for the start or for the taller profile of the tire maybe putting more pressure on the forks?

9/25/2024 6:06pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Honda certainly has something figured out in the way that they use the ECU to manage how the engine torque is applied to the rear wheel...

Honda certainly has something figured out in the way that they use the ECU to manage how the engine torque is applied to the rear wheel. It seems like no matter what surface they are racing on, the bike is always just driving forward in a controlled and predictable way. When you combine that with Jett’s unique ability to stay neutral on the bike and leverage his body to keep the suspension free to move, it’s a tough combination to beat. 

Their starts were poor at muddy supercrosses this year...

image 506

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