Morning practice use transponders to get lap times. sort into classes by lap times not age, feelings, or ego. If someone sandbags morning practice to stay down a class they get moved up next moto, if they sandbag more than once they get a dq for the day or series or whatever makes sense.
Example would be : 300 entries divides into 8 classes at 37 riders per class
Top 12.5% lap times a class
next 12.5 b
next 12.5 c
d
e
f
g
if there’s more than 300 entires would need more classes, less than 300 could be less classes obviously.
25 minute motos would be the goal adjusted up or down based on number of classes but 8 classes would be about 6.5 hrs of racing plus figure in 2 hours for qualifying in the morning is a realistic feasible race day.
charge me $115 for the class I don’t care, if it means longer motos and full gates with people who are my speed.
as it is now there’s 10 people in many classes and rarely are they even close and battling.
too many classes, too many people spread across the classes.
make the gates full and make racing cool again.
right now you can barely even call amateur motocross; motocross.
Yikes! NFM
Just a few questions, others will have more:
1) Who buys the 300+ transponders ?
2) Are riders in E, F, and G lasting 25 mins?
3) Is having big bikes and little bikes racing against each other fair ?
3b) Starts matter and 250/450's will be getting the starts even if the guy on the 80 is faster. Seems unfair.
Count me in!
A lot of offroad series uses transponder helmet stickers, they sell them for $5.
Starts matter but if the moto's are longer the starts become less critical, plenty of time for the better rider on lower HP bike to make passes.
The Shop
The only reason it wouldn't be popular is because a lot of current moto "racers" care more about social media posting (their plaque, their new graphics, their new "sponsor", etc.) than they do about having fun riding.
1 : plenty of series require transponders and rent them out, non issue.
2: go slower, at a pace you can sustain. Which is why I’m saying motocross as it is, is hardly motocross. A 4 lap race 9 minute race with 10 riders is not motocross.
3: Big bike only series, little bikes would have to have their own set of solutions like these.
3b: most people fuck starts up way worse than the difference between 250 and 450s but blame it on needing a 450 rather than better technique.
that makes sense. Racing 4-5 lap “motos” with 7 people in your class is disgustingly lame.
Sadly, just the fact of moving guys up in the next moto and possibility of getting DQ'd is going to keep people from showing up. Some clubs used to do that here and stopped because those riders stopped coming to their races after being moved up.
25 minute motos for some sounds great and would be worth their money, but others would hate going longer than 15 minutes. Maybe pros 25 minutes and each class below drops a little bit. 20 for B, 18 for C, 16 for D, 14 for F and 12 for G?
I don’t hate the sound of it besides one of the main factors I’m suggusting this is that I think sitting around all day for 2-4 9 minute motos is terrible.
That's RFID timing not transponders, I could be wrong but I think those require you go through a narrowish gate to read the tag, as opposed to a timing wire buried under a wider section of track that transponder use. Could probably still work though.
You might be able to dq for egregious sandbagging but if you lay up 3 or 4 seconds in practice that could make a big difference and would be hard to prove sandbagging.
If you were running a 2 day event you could run normal classes on Saturday then re-sort according to those race laptimes for Sundays longer motos with less classes. That doesn't really solve anything though if you still have to race Saturday, but could be a fun change up.
Single moto 45 min - 1 hour "GP style" races are pretty fun and easy on your time but not the same as normal moto.
One of the most fun races I've done was the first moto was a qualifier for the Main moto.
Open practice,
Random seeding to Qualifier 1, Q2, Q3, Q4, etc.
Finishing in Qualifier moto determined which Main the riders went to, A, B,C, D, etc. (Ex. top 10 to A main, 11-20 to B main, etc)
No transponders needed.
I just think it would be night and day more fun to have a full gate of people you’re close with to battle with compared to 5-15 riders in some segregated class.
theres guys in c classes that are as fast as some a classes because of age brackets or egos that will never race each other so instead of having fun battles 4 riders wide into turns, they’re all spread out in 15 different classes needlessly.
and having 25 minute motos could be a legit draw, off road has long races and people can handle it, the only reason people in Mx can’t go longer is they sprint because it’s 4 lap races, if it was 25 minutes it changes you’re entire pace and approach.
I would love to race an MX series that has Open C, Open B, Open A and two 30 min motos.
I would love to try that kind of format as well.
The sport is divided into too many classes at the amateur level.
A two moto format with 20 to 30 minute motos and more racers on each gate has always been appealing to me.
That’s exactly what I’m proposing.
problem with what you said with 3 classes that’s a max of 120 rider turnout. All im proposing is to handle more riders than that. But if 120 people is all that showed up it would be 3 classes just like you said.
I’m in sign me up! But it would have to account for and adjust classes based on more than morning practice as already suggested.
Last year at a race series I used my lap times with the cheap $5-$10 RFID sticker to figure out which classes other than 40+Jr I would be able to race and be mid pack…or hell no those guys in XYZ class are 10 seconds faster per lap than I am.
The A,B,C etc. would just be in order of the fastest ,. And not designate an A or B class , right? There would effectively not be any set skill levels right? Doing it that way could help avoid people being worried about being put into the A or B class and then being required to race at that skill level when they go to another organization.
Maybe its not that big of a deal in other parts of the country. But in New England after You race in the A class , that is Your class for ever. The B class has more flexibility , but people would protest other racers if there was something like that around here . I like the idea and I think it could work out and be fun.
When You start to give riders cash prizes it can start issues if they are not in a Pro class. Paying amateurs has never lasted long when ever I've seen anybody try it. And to get the faster expert level racers around New England, the prize money they can win will often factor into what races they do.
It sounds like it would be a hybrid of practice and racing. And would be good for the riders who just go to tracks to practice. It would be hard to have a championship points structure unless it was overall and not per division. On some days You might not get as big of a turnout and then You could have slower guys in the faster classes, or days with bigger turnouts and faster guys deeper into the classes.
Championships have always been a great carrot for keeping riders coming back and racing every week. How would You ,or would You try and structure a championship? Or would it be one off events?
It seems like when you have a strong series that the tracks that series visits get a strong turnout. and these days there are so many series and one off races that riders are all spread out and racing all over. At least in the New England area.
Interesting concept, very similar to the one posted not long ago. But some things finetuned from it to fit more riders.
What if You just timed laps for practice sessions?
Gave out a top 3 or top 5 for a fastest lap of the day , fastest average lap, highest number of laps, and or divide it into classes for finishes . Longest amount of time on the track, slowest average lap time.
Have an almost open track. Where racers can go out as often as they want like a practice. Run an Big bike AB, Big bike C VET. 85, 65, 50 and reset and run over. Have 30 minute sessions that riders can come and go as they want , limit the number of riders on the track, but if a rider pulls off another can go on.
Even set it up like a practice day where You could sign up at any point of the day. Allow riders to pick up their prize/trophy from for up to 2 weeks from when the event happened.
It would let people show up at 2 in the afternoon and go out and run a couple moto's and go home. They may be able to win the fastest lap of their riding class . But risk being unable to ride if there are too many riders there in front of them. Racers who wanted to get hours of track time could, and You would be eligible for prizes in whatever classes You entered. If You wanted to try and get the highest number of laps, and also the fastest average lap time You would pay for 2 classes.
A track could structure it almost like the rider would be betting on themselves. Picking certain classes within classes as bonus prizes given out to those who pay to be in that pool of riders.
Without having gate drops , You would be able to safely fit more racers on a track. Tracks would still get money for multiple class entries, and riders could ride as little or as much as they wanted to ride. And show up and leave whenever. Some downsides are there would not be any gate drops, and head to head racing would not matter as much. and I'm sure others.
Pit Row
I’ve thought of something like that, if you’ve ever gone to an indoor gocart track lot of times they’ll post fastest lap of the day, week, month, all time, and each session they’ll give you a run down of your laps.
it makes it a ton of fun, they could do some type of time attack even for moto.
not wheel to wheel racing but still competing for fastest lap and like you said could easily break it into classes.
Do many races get more than 120 adult racers?
The series I do has 2-300 entires at times. But spread out over 22 classes or so which means most gates are fairly light.
Yeah mine don't, especially A class guys.
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