Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but paid users have great benefits. Paid member benefits:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2024 SX, MX, and SMX series (regularly $30).
If you ever get a chance to ride one do it. In my opinion (and within a reasonable budget) the closest thing to moto on the water.
I'm sure it's record in revenue considering a 125 in 1996 was around $2900 bucks. You'd have to sell 4 to equal one 2023 450. Also Covid artificially pumped up the market which is falling rapidly. Go look at the used bike market.
This thread has given me the motivation to bring my 2006 KX 250 out “garage queen” status … she is getting fired up and ridden soon!
motorcycle stats are not specific to dirt bikes. KTM sold 260,000 units in 2020 and 375,000 in 2021. Those come from KTM's investor resources. Yamaha investor resources show they have increased sales by 38% since 2017 and 24% from 2018. These are stats from the actual manufacture that prove youre wrong lol
I think youre just one of those "everything was better in my day" types.
KTM and Yamaha do not "sell out" of two strokes each year either. Plenty of 2022 left overs still for sale. You just making shit up as you go lol
The Shop
One thing to keep in mind is that those are global sales and are not specific to the U.S. I stated this in the interesting facts thread; there are only roughly 500,000 new motorcycles sold in the U.S. Annually. in 2006 that number was closer to a million. Of that, assume HD accounts for half or even closer to 300,000 now. That leaves (roughly) 200,000 new motorcycles sold in the U.S.
The actual percentage of 2T or 4T dirt bikes sold is crazy. Two or four stroke, we should just be thankful we still have moto bikes in general.
After being involved in moto, and also retail side of the motorcycle industry for many years I believe a big reason we have seen the industry as a whole decline rapidly (moto, sport, HD, all categories) is due to the four stroke dirt bikes. Not because of technology but because of price.
In 2003, at 14, I bought a new KX125 for $4,500.
How are kids or families supposed to get into motorcycling or motocross at the grassroots level if they cant afford it? I'm not talking us moto heads who will do our best to get people into it. But little Jonny who saw dirtbikes on TV and asks his parents who do not ride if he can get one?
I do not have a preference whether be two stroke or four stroke, metric or Harley. I've ridden all types of motorcycles and managed all types of dealerships. Just know only 3% of the U.S. is involved in motorcycles on some level. Our argument of 2 vs 4 is the wrong argument and will never be settled. Instead we should be asking ourselves how we can ride longer while making the sport as whole more affordable and accessible.
We do not grow the sport or motorcycling through fancy supercross TV packages or cool commercials. We grow it by providing exceptional service to the new rider whether be in a dealership, on a forum, or at the gas station pump. WE provide a kick-ass experience and make them loyal to the industry we love.
Harley-Davidson does this well with their HOG chapters. Hate them or love them, they have a profound understanding that a customer is more likely to stay in a segment or in the industry and keep riding if their friends are involved, too.
So, we are beating a dead horse and lets just enjoy our small segment of fun while we can and agree that two wheels are better than no wheels.
10/10 response.
Only reason they aren't selling out is because of the dealers ridiculous markups and added fees. There is currently only 1 2023 YZ250 available within 320 miles of me right now on Cycle Trader
I didnt say anything about price nor did he. or any other factors. Simply said they are not selling out. Which we can agree on lol
Honest question, what do you think a dealer makes at retail on a new YZ250?
You're correct in that they aren't technically selling out, but that isn't because 2 strokes aren't selling or anything to do with Yamaha/KTM. That comes down to a dealer issue. Send those bikes to a dealer that isn't adding ridiculous markup and charging crazy fees and those bikes are in someone's garage immediately.
And you have zero facts to back this. Just your personal opinion lol
There are 21 YZ250s for sale within 100 miles of me. Some of them are at dealers I know for a fact do not have these crazy fees you speak of. Interested in what you make up to account for this
I honestly don't know. Could be $500, could be $1500 at MSRP. I can tell you I have seen dealers have YZ250s with a price tag of $9000, $9200 and $9500 before tax and fees. If they sell at those prices before tax and fees, those guys are making a pretty damn good chunk on those bikes.
If 2 strokes are so bad, let 250s compete with 250s. That's all "we" ever asked for...
Where are they? Just looked at every Yamaha/KTM dealer in DFW. Couldn't find a 2022 (new) anywhere.
You can utilize this really neat feature and change the area you want to search from. Try that. lol Unless you want to go with the theory of "theres barely any in my immediate area of this massive country so they must be selling out everywhere"
you see how ridiculous that is right?
See above
You must be some sort of liberal crazy pony soldier democrat to throw out a statement like that that makes zero sense.
Do you understand how ICE work?
Damn, look at all the bikes home equity loans bought in the late 2000s.
Pit Row
Sillyness abounds.
If you lift your 150 lbs twice in the same time as the 300 lbs is once, it's the same amount of effort.
Why does anyone give a rip what someone else rides? That cuts both ways. We do this for fun, and who cares if 2t or 4t or electric is more fun for one person than for another? But maybe trolling and taking crap about bikes is even more fun than riding for some people.
The 500 class was done in 1993. 2 strokes were still being raced. 4 stroke sales had nothing to do with the demise of the 500 class.
You’re comparing a 465 which is has outdated 35 plus years old technology. The 2 stroke snowmobile tech is very advanced. With 3 stage rave valves the power comes on early and has a very broad torque curve. They are also far from finicky. I have 7500 miles on my sled and only changed the plugs once. The motor has never been opened up.
I made the post and dont care what people ride. I have a 250 2 stroke and a 450.
It was a discussion about why 2 strokes have such a hard following. Thats all.
Hahahahaha! Clown!
This thread needs more BRAAAAAAP....
Sorry folks....but 4 strokes suck when you watch someone properly ripping a well tuned smoker.
Tomac says it all in the opening dialog.
...and on a 2005 KX250 to boot.
Late to the party but . . .
Is this one of those threads started by bot or something, to stir up shit, and increase the almighty engagement for the slaves to the algorithm?
Nope. Go read through the thread before making a dumbass comment. Multiple times I have said I learned something, that I understand it from a different perspective, admitted when I was wrong on things.
...and as if we needed any more evidence.
I submit cone pipes. The defense rests.
LOL. I'm a what?
Two strokes fire twice as often. They have double the number of power strokes for any rpm as a four stroke.
That is well understood and is why for the AMA at least, equivalency is between a 125 2 stroke and a 250 4 stroke and 250/2 and 450/4.
Not that complicated.
Two strokes also have a constant loss lubrication system, and throw a hell of a lot of unburnt fuel out the exhaust, which puts them on the nose.
I’m just here for the “2 strokes are easier/cheaper to maintain!” comments
that’s a complete myth
Post a reply to: 2 strokes arent amazing